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rallo 2011-8-16 12:41 PM

The question for management...

I have been thinking about the common staffing issue by many employers and HR and I would like to seek everyone's help/ view on this matter.

Case 1:  Employers often complain about  staff quality in terms of performance and work ethics... Many employers blame on their staff by stereotyping their age group(post 60s-90s), nationality, appearance, sex, etc...

My thinking:   Now lets assume the reason is that employers are unsatisfied with the employees performance

This is either intentional or unintentional by the motive of the staff. I would think that most staff are not performing well mostly not because of their inability but only that they are not motivated or unwilling to.
1.) The most common reason- Noncompetitive salary scheme
2.) Employers underestimated the use of training (internal branding?)
3.) The staff are often not compensated or rewarded upon their expectations of achievements
4.) Employers lack the leadership therefore shows no prospect/ inspirations to subordinates
5.) ...(please add your opinion)

Anyway, I just had this urge to discuss with people who have some thoughts on this matter... I would really like to hear different opinions from you all.

AHB11 2011-8-17 09:08 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]rallo[/i] 於 2011-8-16 12:41 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=299764934&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I have been thinking about the common staffing issue by many employers and HR and I would like to seek everyone's help/ view on this matter.

Case 1:  Employers often complain about  staff quality i ... [/quote]
It's not uncommon for employees to think they are under-paid for what they do, and likewise, employers always they they compensate their staff well (or too well)  - in many studies done overseas, money is not the most important in employee satisfaction

When you point out the post-80's age group, I believe one problem they (including myself) are facing is the lack of upward mobility in careers
Many of the managers are so-called baby boomers, they experienced the fast growing economic growth when they graduated some twenty years ago.
Now these lucky ones are still in their 40s and won't retire in twenty years... what's left for the newer generation in terms of career advancement?  The situation just hurts motivation at work

[[i] 本帖最後由 AHB11 於 2011-8-17 09:10 PM 編輯 [/i]]

NS000 2011-8-17 11:06 PM

Lets say this "staff quality" issue is a repeating cycle between the employer and the employee. The 5th point i can say is the nature of the staff quality is not up to the expectation, because this is just how they work, their habit.  This might be confusing as you might still believe people can always be motivated under some extra care from the employer. but this isn't true at all. your comment is based on the western practice "work ethics" , which i don't think it will nicely fit in Hong Kong.

AHB11 2011-8-18 12:37 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]NS000[/i] 於 2011-8-17 11:06 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=299940520&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Lets say this "staff quality" issue is a repeating cycle between the employer and the employee. The 5th point i can say is the nature of the staff quality is not up to the expectation, because this is ... [/quote]
comparing HK and the west, sorry to say, work ethics in HK is really low
HK ppl are very hard working, but doesn't mean they are passionate about what they do
take the audit field as an example, most accountants-to-be in HK hate what they are doing (of coz they have ridiculous hours which I can understand)
but some of them don't even like doing accounting and they dont' fit in, they want a stable job, a professional title
in countries like US or UK, i found graduates to be a little more passionate about what they do
the job sucks, but they still somehow find a way to like it... at least they tell you they like what they do
the attitude is very different when you are working purely for money and not for satisfaction

rallo 2011-8-18 09:30 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]NS000[/i] 於 2011-8-17 11:06 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=299940520&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Lets say this "staff quality" issue is a repeating cycle between the employer and the employee. The 5th point i can say is the nature of the staff quality is not up to the expectation, because this is ... [/quote] Thanks for your comment. I do understand what you are saying as that's what my boss thinks. However, my opinion comes from the experience that I had in my firm. There were many "sales" staff, newcomers that have potential (at least from the first impression). Many of them either leave within days/ weeks. Those who have the potential often start slacking harder and harder then eventually gets no business and quits or get fired... Meanwhile they are slacking, i have already told my boss about this but he just ignored. (implying he doesnt think its something management could do, or not worth doing... he just said just let it be, if they fail, they will leave.) I am very disappointed by hearing this from the management. All he cares is his own clients but not the whole progress of the company... sigh.

My boss always says people nowadays are useless, lazy, stupid, etc..(you name it). He said he will hire until the right person shows up (meaning he will insist on the current management style as in ignoring the so called incompetent staff). The right staff will come when the time is right... I am so confused by my boss' expectation and goal... It seems to me he is trying to buy a lottery ticket.  

What do you guys think about my management? Is he/she just not born as a leader? (or is this common?)

jimbo86 2011-8-18 10:48 AM

I believe one problem they (including myself) are facing is the lack of upward mobility in careers

u make it sounds like they're working for the undertakers. Namely a dead end job.

AHB11 2011-8-18 04:36 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]rallo[/i] 於 2011-8-18 09:30 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=299977958&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Thanks for your comment. I do understand what you are saying as that's what my boss thinks. However, my opinion comes from the experience that I had in my firm. There were many "sales" staff, newcome ... [/quote]
i m a little confused, if they have potential, why would they slack?
put yourself into your boss's shoes, do you want to train 10 incompetent employees or 1 who can do the job?
for a sales position, self motivation is very important - if i were the boss, i would want someone who's willing to reach out when they have questions or problems and not sit there and slack...
your boss might have some problems when criticizing the inabilities, but the new comers don't sound to be too passionate with what they do

AHB11 2011-8-18 04:37 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2011-8-18 10:48 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=299985218&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I believe one problem they (including myself) are facing is the lack of upward mobility in careers

u make it sounds like they're working for the undertakers. Namely a dead end job. [/quote]
well, not as extreme as a dead end but opportunity is limited compared to the older generation...

karen71 2011-8-18 04:59 PM

Please Help

Pls Help
I am working in a fashion company as a senior Sales.
Recently the company want to promote me to be a
Supervior. The HR give me a Form :
EMPLOYEE PERFORMANCE APPRAISAL PREPARATION FORM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------in advance of each performance appraisal conference,the
employee should complete this form and be prepared to
review it with the evaluator.

1. Areas/Accomplishments
_____________________________
May includs work achiement, contribution to Dept, or Company goals, self growth activities, etc.

2. Areas of Growth/Improvement
_____________________________
Next posting/type of duties prefered.

3.Ways My Supervisor Can Help Me Most

I really don`t know how to answer the above three items !
Would somebody kindly to help me !

Thanks a lot !!!

NS000 2011-8-18 10:33 PM

nah , "potential" is just an assumption rather than a fact. Until he/she is performing well,  the management may not consider him./her as a valuable player.

Your boss isn't a poor leader, i think he/she is more likely got tired of the poor work ethics in nowadays.

AHB11 2011-8-18 11:17 PM

i m not that old but i do find recent grads have poor work ethics... they don't even know how to work as a team
sigh...

NS000 2011-8-18 11:47 PM

lets just say working as a team is a mandatory personal attribute in today's society , education systems do not see this as a required topic anymore. The lack of self motivation, practical goals and self awareness are the key factors that leads to poor work ethics today.  Many people often give me BS like "Oh no one has taught me that~ such and such~" , or "I don't need to learn that" . Under this type for environment, even a good and reasonable employer will give up training his/her employees (after all they are human as well) I know this may be not fair to those who are willing to work / refine their skills, but there are just too few of these type of people floating around.

jimbo86 2011-8-19 12:53 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]AHB11[/i] 於 2011-8-18 04:37 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=300018052&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

well, not as extreme as a dead end but opportunity is limited compared to the older generation... [/quote]
better or worse than this
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Fyf0eTyoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Fyf0eTyoI[/url]

AHB11 2011-8-19 03:54 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]NS000[/i] 於 2011-8-18 11:47 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=300061645&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
lets just say working as a team is a mandatory personal attribute in today's society , education systems do not see this as a required topic anymore. The lack of self motivation, practical goals and s ... [/quote]
is it the education or family?
an intern in my team didn't even greet people in the morning...
social values, and hence attitudes changed tremendously in recent years
sometimes I find it really hard to fit in even though i was born and raised in HK

AHB11 2011-8-19 03:55 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2011-8-19 12:53 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=300069843&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

better or worse than this
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Fyf0eTyoI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Fyf0eTyoI[/url] [/quote]
you mean the burger or???? ;P

jimbo86 2011-8-20 12:30 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]AHB11[/i] 於 2011-8-19 03:55 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=300078990&ptid=15080881][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

you mean the burger or???? ;P [/quote]I mean the guys flipping the burgers who also bark out chee burgy cheeburgy chip chip no coke pepsi cola

GundamG3 2011-8-21 11:07 PM

The discussion is reason for Employee's unsatisfactory performance?
1.) The most common reason- Noncompetitive salary scheme
- Let's check the JD, last line usually state, "ad hoc assignment" - which is a part never really compensated enough, especially for fixed salary earner.
2.) Employers underestimated the use of training (internal branding?)
- Training is for staff with potential, and it's not the right HR tool to motivate staff
3.) The staff are often not compensated or rewarded upon their expectations of achievements
- Linked to the comment I gave above - the achievements are expected, per described in JD
4.) Employers lack the leadership therefore shows no prospect/ inspirations to subordinates
- Leadership is not well defined itself, but in general I agree it had affect over staff performance
5.) - Performance is affected by colleagues as well, and the "atmosphere" or company culture is also formed by colleagues. How bosses pick their subordinate contributed to the atmosphere. In friendly competitive, aggression competitive, or political competitive environment, employee performance may vary.
- as someone mentioned about auditor, they're the good example in HK, especially for those who're not Accounting graduate that tried to get into Big4, showing we're opportunistic. Auditors are being paid higher, in exchange their job quantity is much higher, which is a fair exchange. It's a question of give and take only, newbies only see the "take" but unwilling to live with the "give", and that's employers dislike.

dannycheong 2011-8-26 07:00 AM

that's because some experiences are not easy to be taught, even though you or your subordinates got such talent to train them.

i acted as an in-charge and regional auditor who were responsible for entire training system in a hospitality frim. my opinions are :-

1) basic job requirements of employees have been examinated during the interview. the newbies should be assumed to be competent.

2) extra care and training will lead to extra cost. a waste of time of the seniors can not benefit the company in terms of higher level of management, such as significate decision-making.

3) if recruitment is one of the ways to select a suitable person for the post and contain less cost in operation, why not keeping this progess to hire more and try more potential employees?

4) patient is also a key factor in running a business. if you got a whole plan and completed proposal about how to solve these problems, then you just raise it to your boss. btw, you are not an expert for it and need to ask.

thus, your boss is wise.
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