查看完整版本 : UOL 入 PCLL 問題

m.chan66 2012-10-8 21:46

各位好.

若本人持有 2:1 LLB (UOL) ,但分數不足以申請 PCLL,有沒有其他增值的方法可以再申請 PCLL?例如讀 LLM? 定還是要重讀 CPE OR JD?

Vista2003 2012-10-8 23:57

2:1 都叫做2nd up, 點解唔得?你apply 邊間?



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benbenchin 2012-10-9 13:31

Have you tried and failed?

m.chan66 2012-10-9 20:24

Failed.

monmonkei 2012-10-9 22:00

因為近年收多左 CPE??

wittywrit 2012-10-9 22:22

May I ask ur actually grades n the university you applied to?

ggmmlf 2012-10-10 00:45

Ching

By no mean to offend u.
I am also a uol LLBer. I think ever since hku has changed the pcll rules of the game. It is almost impossible for a pure uol llber to get a pcll place. It might be another story if u a alos a hkuer
Anyway please bear in mind u are competing with law graduates all over the world including Oxbridge for a pcll place



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Dailyfish 2012-10-10 01:08

[quote]原帖由 [i]ggmmlf[/i] 於 2012-10-10 12:45 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=344528828&ptid=20957021][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

"I think ever since hku has changed the pcll rules of the game. It is almost impossible for a pure uol llber to get a pcll place. It might be an I think ever since hku has changed the pcll rules of the game. It is almost impossible for a pure uol llber to get a pcll place. It might be another story if u a alos a hkuer
Anyway please bear in mind u are competing with law graduates all over the world including Oxbridge for a pcll place"... [/quote]

Ching, I can't agree with you. If you read the annual report submitted by the 3 law schools to the Standing Committee on Legal Education, you will find that each year, HKU PCLL admits about 160 to 170 non-HKU LLB students. So long as your grades are competitive, you will have a chance to be admitted, no matter which route you are from.

ggmmlf 2012-10-10 10:36

Ching

So u think it is a fair game?
If the pcll admission is ever a fair game then they should have set up a universal entrance test for everyone.
And in terms of grade, u better find out how many third hon are being granted from hku each year. I would say it is very rare. Then u may compare that with the no of 3rd hon granted by uol. You will see a huge difference. So either the elite in hku is so good or the grading system has underlying policy to ensure something must happen



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jimbo86 2012-10-10 11:22

they all tend to take back those grads from their own school.

go figures.

mogulhongkong 2012-10-10 12:39

大家在下定論前,留意樓主似乎漏了一樣很重要的事實未說:你core subjects分數怎樣?



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m.chan66 2012-10-10 13:11

My overall grade for the core subjects is 59.
The overall grade for the nine subjects is 60.

If I can't admit PCLL based on the result of LLB (UOL), is there any way for upgrading myself so that I can get a place in PCLL later?

e.g. To apply CPE (MMU and Space) or JD (CUHK - part time) or LLM (e.g. LLM in common laws by CUHK - part time)?

Please give me some advices. Great thx.

fiscamerber 2012-10-10 13:26

[quote]原帖由 [i]m.chan66[/i] 於 2012-10-10 01:11 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=344560186&ptid=20957021][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
My overall grade for the core subjects is 59.
The overall grade for the nine subjects is 60.

If I can't admit PCLL based on the result of LLB (UOL), is there any way for upgrading myself so that  ... [/quote]

that's crazy! did you apply for hku pt? hard to believe that 59-60 marks can't get in

you certainly can take CPE
perhaps you can take JD too, though I am not sure whether holding an LLB would disqualify you
(i think unlikely. in any case you don't have to tell them you have an LLB if they do not ask)
( I assume you have a first degree which is good enough for you to get in)

unfortunately, all these do not "upgrade" your chance.
you simply start over again and need to score good results in order to get in pcll

LLM is an upgrade.....but it is doubtful how much it helps.
and most schools say it may only help a bit if it is a borderline case
(i definitely think yours is borderline case )
rumours say some students, when they take the LLM, develop good relationship with professors who are in charge of the PCLL program or who can influence the intake, and so they can get in after they graduate
not sure if that's true, but i think it is reasonable, at least in the sense that you have chances to let the teachers know more about you and show that you are a competent student for a place


the best way is to do a JD if you can afford
if you can do well in JD, you will have a good chance of getting in pcll and obtaining a good training contract

[[i] 本帖最後由 fiscamerber 於 2012-10-10 01:34 PM 編輯 [/i]]

scotman 2012-10-10 13:26

this is a problem facing all external LLB students ,they have no ideas of how many students compete for the PCLL place in HK! bearing in mind that , those applying for PCLL include the following: External LLB students, CPE Students, Juris-Dr. students , local and overseas and you will see your failure to get into a PCLL is not a surprise. As in the case of Lingnam this year, the problem with the PCLL is that they had failed to inform the applying students how many places they probably have given to non-own-university-LLB student and how many applying students every year! I would anticipate that the competition is getting keen every year . Why ? a lot of people tend to think it is easy to become a lawyer and so a lot of people, some of them fail to get a job at all, and some of them dis-satisifed with their present job, and some of them had been laid off recently, many of them are bright people, i.e from financial sector, come to study external LLB and the problem with our Space or other external LLB providers are that , they run it as a money -creating program, exactly likes Lingnam .
Your problem that a upper second of external LLB cannot find a place in fact had been around for some 4 or five years, it is not new.

wittywrit 2012-10-10 14:13

Im both shocked and cant help but feel bad that your fascinating effort (60!) did not turn out fruitful...yet.

It will be really helpful if you will share with us the university you applied to?  And with due respect, may I ask have you failed and resit any subject with marks uncapped?

ggmmlf 2012-10-10 14:53

It is totally unfair for  a person who has a overall 60 LLB but cant get a pcll place.
But this is the game, when i



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ggmmlf 2012-10-10 14:57

It is totally unfair for  a person who has a overall 60 LLB but cant get a pcll place.
But this is the game, when i  had my introductory session at Space, i was told that if i got a 2:2 i would get a pcll , but when i finally finished my llb, they had already changed the pcll policy.
I wonder what did.they say.to u when in the introductory.



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scotman 2012-10-10 16:30

I think one has to bear in mind the following : that if you take the external LLB because you needs to enter the PCLL, then think about it carefully, whether taking the full internal LLB, ie full time at the university , may be the best move in total. So , it comes back to Square one: If you want to become a lawyer, and you want to enter the local PCLL, think about it carefully before you take the external LLB !!! However good you are, you wont get a place at PCLL because of the keen competition. And to be honest? Is a good upper second external LLB better than a good lower second LLB at a full time university ? I dont know. But I think , when one comes to selection of  candidate for PCLL, there are a lot of factors to be considered. Academic result is only one of the many factor. Those who complains about this has no ideas of what other candidate looks like, with respect.
Yes, as I said, getting a upper second external LLB meant you had been working hard after work , and that is. No more and no less. The other side of the coin, is of course that you have made no research into this subject before entering into external degree , as I said, the problem arounds some years, and is getting worser. A lot of financial researcher and /or investment banker had been laid off this year, no doubt we will see the jump of candidate for external and/or full time LLB and CPE and , OMG, next years, may be  a good lower second LLB in full time course cannot even enter into PCLL.

m.chan66 2012-10-10 20:32

Let me introduce my background first.

Currently, I am working as a quantity surveyor for a major infrastructure project. I have been a chartered surveyor since 2006 and gradauted with a Surveying Degree (2:2) and construction management degree (Distinction) from a top 3 U in HK. I have around 10 years working experience in quantity surveying focusing on disputes resolution and contract management.  I started my UOL LLB in 2008 via graduate route B and completed the degree (2:1) within 3 years. I have applied PCLL in two of the law schools in HK. Unfortunately, I was rejected. My objective to study a LLB is to equip my legal knowledge so as to switch from a surveyor to a claims specialist in the international claim consultant or law firms.
I am thinking the next step I should do to increase my chance of achieving my career goal.

1. LLM in Dispute Resolution at HKU/City U?

2. JD in CUHK (part time)?

3. CPE in HKU Space (part time)?

4. MSc in Construction Law and Dispute Resolution at King's College London? (Executive Study Mode)

Any advice is welcome. Thx a lot.

SuperSeiyan4 2012-10-10 21:14

[quote]原帖由 [i]m.chan66[/i] 於 2012-10-10 08:32 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=344589492&ptid=20957021][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Let me introduce my background first.

Currently, I am working as a quantity surveyor for a major infrastructure project. I have been a chartered surveyor since 2006 and gradauted with a Surveying Degree (2:2) and construction management degree (Distinction) from a top 3 U in HK. I have around 10 years working experience in quantity surveying focusing on disputes resolution and contract management.  I started my UOL LLB in 2008 via graduate route B and completed the degree (2:1) within 3 years. I have applied PCLL in two of the law schools in HK. Unfortunately, I was rejected. My objective to study a LLB is to equip my legal knowledge so as to switch from a surveyor to a claims specialist in the international claim consultant or law firms.
I am thinking the next step I should do to increase my chance of achieving my career goal.

1. LLM in Dispute Resolution at HKU/City U?

2. JD in CUHK (part time)?

3. CPE in HKU Space (part time)?

4. MSc in Construction Law and Dispute Resolution at King's College London? (Executive Study Mode)

Any advice is welcome. Thx a lot. [/quote]

LLM DR at City U is the best and most reputable DR programme in Hong Kong. If you just want a boost in your current career, take that.

In my opinion, it's not worth wasting time and money in JD and sacrifice a balanced life, given you are already an experienced professional and lucratively paid. I bet you know how horrid it is to go through those exams again plus mandatory attendance and assignments. The work load of CPE is just more or less the same as that of the JD, i.e. exams, mandatory attendance and assignments etc.
That being said, it's all your own informed decision to make ultimately.

m.chan66 2012-10-10 22:08

Thanks for your advice first.

If possible, I still wanna proceed to PCLL as it is a well recognized profession similar as the chartered surveyor.  Given that tuition fee is not my major concern, am I eligible for applying CUHK JD in part time mode? I am now 33. I am thinking if age is a problem for applying the part time JD at CUHK. Secondly, I also worry if the admission office would consider my UOL LLB as a duplicated qualification for applying JD at CUHK.

Any advice is welcome. Thx a lot.

teddychan001 2012-10-11 02:03

Apart from the keen competition in PCLL, there is also a problem of over-supply in the legal profession in Hong Kong. You may need to think carefully whether it is worth duplicating your effort in entering the field.

scotman 2012-10-11 11:09

If you take sometime to look around, you will see that, surprsingly however, there are a no.of Chartered Surveyor whose name cards include, LLB. Does it tell you something? Some of them cannot enter the PCLL and maybe some of them,after thinking long and hard,do not think it is worthwhile to pursue PCLL after all. Unless you have someone in your family who guarantee a place as a trainee solicitor, assuming you areucky to get into the PCLL, you will end up , just like a lot of pepole outside, with nothing but the name card to impress lay man.After LLB,  if you cannot get into PCLL, dont waste your time and money on whatever course, it is meanlingless and is only an attempt by the teaching establishment to take the m ony from you. Like I said, to a professinal, these courses worth nothing. It only proves that you had spent a year and that is all. And , wherever and whenever there are financial crisises, there are many unemployed going for law, for it requires no pre-qualification to study. So when you delay PCLL for one more year, you will face increasing competition next year. And by the way, getting all sort of non-PCLL diploma wont help you. As a matter of fact, all lawyers know that , if you cannot get into PCLL after finishing LLB and instead obtained whatever diploma, neverv mind what'sname, you are simply not good enough, as comspare to the newly graduate of PCLL.

If you study law for fun as a hobby, for knowledge, fine, I APPRECIATE and i am one of them.

Or you will be greatlt disappointed. those years you spent in law cannot be compensated by what you lost in your old job, think about the opportunity costs.

As said by other CHING, we are facing the glut of lawyer.

IF you think your background may help, forget about it. the legal system in hong kong is that a solicitor may retain counsel, a barrister to act and there are a no. of counsel who is already a chartered engineer, chartered surveyor. etcs.

scotman 2012-10-11 11:18

whenever there are interview, interviewing partner look at the resumae, and if they see that this candidate has a LLM , JURSI/DOC. between the LLB and the PCLL, then they will know immediately that this candidate had failed to obtain a place in PCLL after finishing LLB. even before the interview, they know that this candidate is a failed candidate. the moral is: these LLM AND/OR JURSI/DOC dont help you a bit.

newpraya 2012-10-12 17:24

請問樓主first choice報了哪間大學的pcll? 據說cuhk唔係好收uol 的grad

jimbo86 2012-10-12 23:36

see if u can get into bar thru other jurisdiction  ie oz, ny state or uk. then come back as a foreign reg lawyer.

HKOzLaw 2012-10-13 02:58

Scotman, well said.

I do feel for law graduates who complete their LLBs but not getting a place for PCLL.  Their dreams remain dreams.  

However, even if one has qualified as a lawyer, that person still has to survive in the profession in the long run.  For some, maybe it is better to be excluded early on to cut losses.  You do not want to find yourself struggling to survive after practising law for five to six years in addition to years of studying and a lot of schools fees paid.  But then you don't know unless you have tried.  

Mine involves a lot of luck and some innovative methods so far.  I need to keep my fingers crossed, tightly crossed.  Don't underestimate the power of luck, ie. being at the right place at the right time and knowing the right person and of course having the right attributes.

[[i] 本帖最後由 HKOzLaw 於 2012-10-13 08:16 AM 編輯 [/i]]

m.chan66 2012-10-13 11:16

My ultimate goal to study the legal program is to increase my chance for seeking a claims specialist position in an international construction claims consultant such as James Knowlex Rogxr (Now it is Hill Internationxl )  or the law firm like Deacxn. I am thinking merely a LLB (2:1) from UOL is not sufficient to satisfy their requirement and that 's why I am finding the way of further upgrading myself for seeking a position in those claims consultant or law firms.  Having reviewing the background of the staff in the firms, most of them have PCLL or CIArb (but PCLL should be more preferable) and LLB/LLM in Construction Law & Dispute Resolution. That's why I am thinking if my next step should be targeting on CIArb via the dispute resolution postgraduate program or else I should pursue a JD in CUHK (The qualification of LLB from UOL would be hidden for application of JD program).

I am now 33 and so I wanna switch from my quantity surveyor position to a claims specialist as soon as possible and by my ultimate effort.

Any advice is welcome. Thx a lot.

greentea88 2012-10-15 01:09

M.chan Ching, we understand your concern but above 2-3 post wants to know which 2 pcll providers did you apply and which was your first choice. I.e, if u applied for Chinese U pcll, it's tough. Please advise too! Cheers

dragonlegend 2012-10-15 09:49

[quote]原帖由 [i]teddychan001[/i] 於 2012-10-11 02:03 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=344614169&ptid=20957021][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Apart from the keen competition in PCLL, there is also a problem of over-supply in the legal profession in Hong Kong. You may need to think carefully whether it is worth duplicating your effort in ent ... [/quote]
It seems the legal industry in Hong Kong is currently undersupply instead of over as told by my friend who is a industry practitioner. If you can really enter PCLL, the career prospect should not pose any worry
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查看完整版本: UOL 入 PCLL 問題