99999gamer 2013-12-15 01:59
小弟我只有本地法律學位(城大),想入行先。香港做律師如果想日後發展前途大D,例如細FIRM入大FIRM,做PARTNER,或者入大公司做IN HOUSE,係唔係一定要出去浸過呢(ESP 英國)?
當然工作經驗最重要,但係唔係有幾年PQE之後出去補個LLM會硬凈D?對發展有利D呢?
若缺齋老人 2013-12-15 09:38
[color=Red]入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm;[/color]
[color=Blue]
這同你的人脈、搵生意能力關係大點;[/color]
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-15 01:59 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377670673&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
小弟我只有本地法律學位(城大),想入行先。香港做律師如果想日後發展前途大D,[color=Red]例如細FIRM入大FIRM[/color],[color=Blue]做PARTNER[/color],或者入大公司做IN HOUSE,係唔係一定要出去浸過呢(ESP 英國)?
當然工作經驗最重要,但係唔係有 ... [/quote]
99999gamer 2013-12-15 12:02
[quote]原帖由 [i]若缺齋老人[/i] 於 2013-12-15 09:38 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377677420&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm;
這同你的人脈、搵生意能力關係大點;
[/quote]
咁做IN HOUSE 呢?
99999gamer 2013-12-15 12:14
去英國一年LLM30幾萬,而且仲係衣家D數字,幾年後都唔知升到幾多~~~~~~~
去澳洲讀學費差唔多,生活費平D,相差不過幾萬——咁仲不如去英國!
當然入到行做SOLI賺到呢個數唔係問題,不過既然係重大投資,就要考慮回報喇
相比之下香港讀肯定最抵,仲有得PART-TIME,不過同浸鹹水嗰D比會唔會差D呢(同期有一班NOTTINGHAM、LSE、KINGS COLLEGE、甚至CAMBRIDGE翻嚟嘅,好有壓迫感啊):smile_27:
99999gamer 2013-12-15 13:47
[quote]原帖由 [i]若缺齋老人[/i] 於 2013-12-15 09:38 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377677420&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm;
這同你的人脈、搵生意能力關係大點;
[/quote]
仲有,照你講,如果PQE 5年拉到些少客,如果呢陣時放低走出去浸,等於放棄呢D生意,讀完番嚟從頭嚟過(絕對不利,讀完番嚟都唔後生喇)?
不過反過嚟講,如果PQE 5年都拉唔到咩客(事業瓶頸?),放低出去浸一浸係咪相當於“悠長假期”呢:smile_41:
99999gamer 2013-12-15 14:23
不過我都知道,讀書同做嘢絕對係兩回事,甚至可以話同溝女一樣係講緣分喇
我識得有個人LLM讀CORPORATE,結果出嚟專做CONVEYANCING啊(不過應該係讀完先出嚟做,我考慮做幾年再讀就係想避免呢種情況),人生無常
PG_student 2013-12-15 16:54
如果讀LLM (CUHK,HKU) 係香港 PART TIME 讀同去英國 (LSE, KCL) 讀LLM FULL TIME ,返黎香港報業那一個認受性較高?讀法律係咪去過英國名校讀返黎會有較高認受性?
99999gamer 2013-12-16 00:41
你嘅問題就係我嘅問題啊。
Gossip_keke 2013-12-16 09:49
如果你LLB成績好:
A) 大firm已經出了TC offer;
B) Oxbridge已經出了LLM offer;
C) all of the above
如果你LLB成績不夠好:
A) 只有中小firm TC offer;
B) 只有普通U LLM offer;
C) all of the above;
D) none of the above
Conclusion: 你的LLB成績如何,你的命運也將如何
[url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/iphone][img=100,23]http://i.discuss.com.hk/d/images/r10/iphoneD.jpg[/img][/url]
yiyiallall 2013-12-16 10:36
[quote]原帖由 [i]Gossip_keke[/i] 於 2013-12-16 09:49 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377750779&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Conclusion: 你的LLB成績如何,你的命運也將如何[/quote]
不對, 絕對視乎你有沒有客, 有沒有客則視乎人脈及交際能力, 吹水能力etc
你假設為做大FIRM一定發, 但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?:smile_30:
Gossip_keke 2013-12-16 13:05
師兄講緊第2、3個hurdle;
我頭先講第1個;
第1個都過唔到,咩都唔使講
[quote]原帖由 [i]yiyiallall[/i] 於 2013-12-16 10:36 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377752851&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
不對, 絕對視乎你有沒有客, 有沒有客則視乎人脈及交際能力, 吹水能力etc
你假設為做大FIRM一定發, 但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?:smile_30: [/quote]
[url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/iphone][img=100,23]http://i.discuss.com.hk/d/images/r10/iphoneD.jpg[/img][/url]
[[i] 本帖最後由 Gossip_keke 於 2013-12-16 03:34 PM 使用[url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/iphone][img=100,23]http://i.discuss.com.hk/d/images/r10/iphoneD.jpg [/img][/url] 編輯 [/i]]
PG_student 2013-12-16 13:05
如果去英國 (e.g. LSE or KCL) 讀LLM (EXECUTIVE PART TIME MODE) 同在港大讀LLM PART TIME MODE,那一個認受性較高?較有機會入大FIRM?
jimbo86 2013-12-16 16:29
但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?
some cannot stand the big firm culture,
if u cannot keep up the billable hours, big firms have big overhead and u need to service them too. is easy when they give u the clients, but not so easy when u have to find your billable clients.
yiyiallall 2013-12-16 17:08
[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2013-12-16 04:29 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377770523&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?
some cannot stand the big firm culture,
if u cannot keep up the billable hours, big firms have big over ... [/quote]
yes, that and their clients may also demand discount so it doesn't matter how hard you work, you still can't meet the target:smile_38:
99999gamer 2013-12-16 20:00
[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2013-12-16 04:29 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377770523&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?
some cannot stand the big firm culture,
if u cannot keep up the billable hours, big firms have big over ... [/quote]
every firm needs you to find clients, big or small...lawyers are like doctors. they start from a hospital , and then leave for opening their own clinics. There must be a reason for them to do so.
The difference seems to be doctors find clients easier than lawyers do, because people are more frequently ill than encountering legal problems.:smile_27:
99999gamer 2013-12-16 20:17
[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2013-12-16 04:29 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377770523&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
但事實上很多行家(真的很多)做大FIRMS一陣都自願OR被迫要出番來LOCAL FIRMS打工, 唔通佢地嫌錢腥?
some cannot stand the big firm culture,
if u cannot keep up the billable hours, big firms have big over ... [/quote]
CLIENT問題應該亦係D人想做IN HOUSE同政府嘅原因, 唔使憂CLIENT……
99999gamer 2013-12-16 20:18
[quote]原帖由 [i]Gossip_keke[/i] 於 2013-12-16 09:49 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377750779&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
如果你LLB成績好:
A) 大firm已經出了TC offer;
B) Oxbridge已經出了LLM offer;
C) all of the above
如果你LLB成績不夠好:
A) 只有中小firm TC offer;
B) 只有普通U LLM offer;
C) all of the above;
D) none of th ... [/quote]
找你講如果JD/LLB階段成績唔好,就算有PQE都入唔到D大FIRM同名校嘅LLM喇,真係咁絕對?
Gossip_keke 2013-12-16 20:59
[入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm] - 老人金句:smile_34:
= 有細firm's PQE都極難轉到入大firm
99999gamer 2013-12-16 21:17
[quote]原帖由 [i]Gossip_keke[/i] 於 2013-12-16 08:59 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377784376&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
[入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm] - 老人金句:smile_34:
= 有細firm's PQE都極難轉到入大firm [/quote]
其實根本問題,學歷係唔係僅僅對搵工有影響呢?如果已經搵到工,以後再求發展係唔係更著重PQE同能力啊(例如拉客能力)
[[i] 本帖最後由 99999gamer 於 2013-12-16 09:21 PM 編輯 [/i]]
jimbo86 2013-12-17 00:25
in-house's problem is your income is capped, when u are young u want to test your limit, if people say if a lawyer can make 2 mil a mth then u wanna to challenge your capabilities. so u wanna to go on your own to see if u can break the minute mile or land speed record.
as we get a bit more mature and u know your limit then u settle for the amount of work and return. in-house u settle for a good salary but less risk as day day u have to perform so much work but less surprises and overtime.
as we get older we wanna to see less challenge just wanna to go home by 5pm. and expect a pay cheque on time.
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-16 08:17 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377781906&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
CLIENT問題應該亦係D人想做IN HOUSE同政府嘅原因, 唔使憂CLIENT…… [/quote]
jimbo86 2013-12-17 00:31
nothing is absolute in life.
quite often u grow with your clients, so as your clients' business grow and he/she find u trustworthy then he will want u to oversee most of his legal work.
[quote]原帖由 [i]Gossip_keke[/i] 於 2013-12-16 08:59 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377784376&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
[入得細firm就極難轉到入大firm] - 老人金句:smile_34:
= 有細firm's PQE都極難轉到入大firm [/quote]
jimbo86 2013-12-17 00:36
conveyancing the sad part is others can compete with price, basically u are a glorified technician unless something went wong and that require your expertise. one should learn other skills while they're still young, u dont wait till u're 50 or 60s to learn new skills or change your area of expertise.
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-15 02:23 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377694418&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
不過我都知道,讀書同做嘢絕對係兩回事,甚至可以話同溝女一樣係講緣分喇
我識得有個人LLM讀CORPORATE,結果出嚟專做CONVEYANCING啊(不過應該係讀完先出嚟做,我考慮做幾年再讀就係想避免呢種 ... [/quote]
jimbo86 2013-12-17 00:46
before i have any lawyer friends i think in the similar way as u.
but if u're a bright lawyer u show confidence to clients that itself impresses them and make them want to refer or use when the situation arise.
a few of my barristers friend do demonstrate that they're very competent they so instill confidence in u should u need one.
doing conveyancing will be kind of screwed as many can compete with u in price.
we wanna to do things no others can copy us, if not u will meet the same fate as those manufacturing jobs that went to a cheaper place.
40-50 yrs ago before computer were so versatile, there were more people doing copying work, accounting work etc. now a computer even replace type writers.
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-16 08:00 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377781092&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
every firm needs you to find clients, big or small...lawyers are like doctors. they start from a hospital , and then leave for opening their own clinics. There must be a reason for them to do so.
... [/quote]
99999gamer 2013-12-17 12:57
[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2013-12-17 12:46 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377800015&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
before i have any lawyer friends i think in the similar way as u.
but if u're a bright lawyer u show confidence to clients that itself impresses them and make them want to refer or use when the situa ... [/quote]
i agree, but that will also depend on whether the firm you are in can give you something different do to.
if I would be stuck in a small firm doing ONLY conveyancing, I would seriously consider taking a "long vacation" by going overseas for an LLM...
Nevertheless, conveyancing might not be that grim. A tutor told me a good conveyancing lawyer may do large conveyancing projects or in house in large developers.
jimbo86 2013-12-18 03:01
take some time off to travel overseas could be a good idea. As it widens your perspective.
Just met a couple of kids on work visa here from hk.
Before 97 there was a lawyer who did very well by just doing conveyancing, day day he woke up by noonish, rolled into off by 3 and signed a few papers then organized his agenda for the evening at the club volvo or china city. He was the conveying guy for one of these big developers. Developer always gave him a few preferential suites to sell, basically is stuffing money into his pocket, lic to print $$. Is like buying future, he probably paid very little deposits soon as the flats are ready to flip he got $$ in the bank. Some of these corner suite with sea view can command a very good premium as compare to something facing the garbage dumpster.
That could be a very good way of printing $$. Except 97 was only around the corner.
Suddenly the market went flat, he had too much unsold inventories, the developer require him to start making payments. In the end he had to file chpt 11.
This was a very exception case. i am sure several lawyers still get to do conveyancing for the big developers. The trick is how can u get this kind of connections?
A fnd here did a 12 mil conveyancing back in the 90s. He did well for a while, but his way of dealing with people kind of hampered his career, now he has a small office and flying solo. I dont think his income were what it used to be.
When u're young is good to get as much skills as u can.
PI is a big thing in N America. Since HK has no contingency plan. Not sure how u folks do it. Whatever u can do to polish your court arguing skills will always benefit u in the long run. Arbitrating skills , everything and anything will always help.
If u look at conveyancing , is there any proprietary skills in there?
Dont get me wong, many solicitors hammered out wills, multipart contracts, M & As they all require a lot of skills to draft out these lengthy contracts. Have a fnd who writes tax law for can govt too in ottawa. One can pick up how far do they think when talking to them.
[[i] 本帖最後由 jimbo86 於 2013-12-18 03:06 AM 編輯 [/i]]
kingme 2013-12-18 06:42
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-17 12:57 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377819082&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
i agree, but that will also depend on whether the firm you are in can give you something different do to.
if I would be stuck in a small firm doing ONLY conveyancing, I would seriously consider t ... [/quote]
this is actually decent advice...unlike a lot of trash on this thread...
that's why I keep saying...some people here are just wasting other people's time and putting in noise drowning out the real information...this to me is very indecent...just hurting people who don't know better because you are have a fix to have to spew out your crazy thoughts...
or that you are just batshit crazy and should seek some professional help...
+johnadamsmith+
*** 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽 ***
+johnadamsmith+
*** 作者被禁止或刪除 內容自動屏蔽 ***
jimbo86 2013-12-20 02:05
one gal i talked to joined the Crown, she said it allows her more free hand as not worry about the billable hours being billed to the clients. Mind u the DOJ boss will look at how much time u burn on each case, is never a carte blanche so u can spend all your time there.
Is important to find a way to build your flight time. The experience will always stay in your head until one day u cannot retrieve them out!
30 yrs ago I had a small talk with a CA, he told me there isn't much future for the junior lawyers to do legal aid, as it panned out to be 50 cents /hr. which is very true. But the truth is flight time is extremely very valuable. Once u comfortable with court time u can go places.
Whatever I say is not going to be gospel, it may never work with u. But at least the info here were collected over 30 yrs from talking to many practicing lawyers here in the jurisdiction of british columbia, canada. Whether u will be successful in any fields the kind of hard work u put in are very similar. Some do argue as I am not being a lawyer then how would I know? yes they're very right. U no need to believe in whatever I say now, but save this and read it in 5 or 10 yrs then u would know if its worth the memory u saved in your HD.
Or as we say is it worth the ink that was written on the paper. Then the ones who vetoed yours truly , have they been in practiced for very long? I say no more than 5 yrs. Plus they never exude the successful confidence. The real issues are u folks need to either get into the profession or tweet up your billable hours. Thank God I have passed the finish line now.
[quote]原帖由 [i]99999gamer[/i] 於 2013-12-16 08:17 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377781906&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
CLIENT問題應該亦係D人想做IN HOUSE同政府嘅原因, 唔使憂CLIENT…… [/quote]
yiyiallall 2013-12-21 12:23
[quote]原帖由 [i]jimbo86[/i] 於 2013-12-20 02:05 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=377975192&ptid=22772903][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
one gal i talked to joined the Crown, she said it allows her more free hand as not worry about the billable hours being billed to the clients. Mind u the DOJ boss will look at how much time u burn on ... [/quote]
加拿大D公務員懶過鬼, 所以勁多人想考入, 仲難考過HK:smile_44: