查看完整版本 : 厚實的高音

Danny-Huang 2016-3-6 03:55 PM

厚實的高音

請問像 bon jovi那種厚實的高音可以練嗎

Wukin2 2016-3-7 06:50 AM

多練pharyngeal,如nay nuh no等等



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 03:51 AM

你好啊,bon jovi 後生時係用extend-full-chest上高音,到他大了改用多些pharyngeal+vocal fry..如果你本身屬男中音,你都可練到用厚實音色去C5-D5 左右, 練高音用vocal fry 練係好重要,冇拒既話單練pharyngeal你音色上到都冇乜質感,只得尖尖既音色。。如果你係屬男高音, 你唔洗用pharyngeal, 用chest+belt 都得。。

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 04:12 AM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 07:54 AM

唔知點咁抗拒pharyngeal,pharyngeal只有nay系尖,原因係高喉位,所以要nay改no改nuh,你試下,pharyngeal用緊blend chest 同head,冇pharyngeal根本就冇用mix voice,chest provides fullness. Head provides release. Pharyngeal blends both together. pharyngeal is the key to sing high and full without killing yourself.



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 10:21 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 07:54 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437346178&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
唔知點咁抗拒pharyngeal,pharyngeal只有nay系尖,原因係高喉位,所以要nay改no改nuh,你試下,pharyngeal用緊blend chest 同head,冇pharyngeal根本就冇用mix voice,chest provides fullness. Head provides ... [/quote]


師兄你好,我冇抗拒 pharngeal,但樓主說要bon jovi rock腔,只靠pharyngeal 你唱唔出好似 livin on a prayer既texture.. 你得閒可示範下。,



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[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 10:52 AM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 10:33 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 10:21 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437352957&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



師兄你好,我冇抗拒 pharngeal,但樓主說要bon jovi rock腔,只靠pharyngealn你唱唔出好似 livin prayer既texture.. 你得閒可示範下。,

過來百度高音吧搵我,叫星麈,我會示範,你啲term錯曬就算,又chest又belt,你跟邊個學架?過來pk一下。


http://n2.hk/d/images/r10/mobile.jpg [/quote]



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 11:04 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 10:33 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437353694&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]




[img]http://n2.hk/d/images/r10/mobile.jpg[/img] [/quote]

師兄我係香港長大現居外國,在香討感覺親切好多,所以冇打算去個邊。。你既然在香討討論咁我問問你在這示範都好合理,這裡冇什麼p唔pk, 文字上講多多都冇示範咁有用, 多謝你試試唱bon jovi 既livin on a prayer。。:loveliness:

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 11:05 AM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 11:17 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:04 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437355499&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


師兄我係香港長大現居外國,在香討感覺親切好多,所以冇打算去個邊。。你既然在香討討論咁我問問你在這示範都好合理,這裡冇什麼p唔pk, 文字上講多多都冇示範咁有用, 多謝你試試唱bon jovi 既livin on a praye ... [/quote]

我依家都係外國,講真講歌唱技術,國外國內比香港好幾條街,我唔係唔想示範,我唔想麻煩又錄音又成,我會等你,果度隨時可以語音,隨時@我,我聽過你唱,爛大街,我只會講我知道嘅,唔想有人唔人子弟,我好真誠俾意見你,可以聽可以唔聽,唔想嘈,多謝。



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 11:41 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:17 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437356251&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


我依家都係外國,講真講歌唱技術,國外國內比香港好幾條街,我唔係唔想示範,我唔想麻煩又錄音又成,我會等你,果度隨時可以語音,隨時@我,我聽過你唱,爛大街,我只會講我知道嘅,唔想有人唔人子弟,我好真誠俾 ... [/quote]

你好師兄,我還在學習中還進步中,這幾年唱歌比以前好了, 我都係分享我對唱歌既心得,也同樣好想繼續學習其他師兄分享既心得,列如ngshingste和kelton 既示範我都得益不淺。
你話你唔會錄音,咁你叫我去個邊做咩,係咪看你用文字討論, 隨時可語系點,用手機語音? ??

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 11:44 AM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 11:49 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:41 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437357640&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


你好師兄,我還在學習中還進步中,這幾年唱歌比以前好了, 我都係分享我對唱歌既心得,也同樣好想繼續學習其他師兄分享既心得,列如ngshingste和kelton 既示範我都得益不淺。
你話你唔會錄音,咁你叫我去個邊做 ... [/quote]

用手機語音,有乜問題?得就係得,唔得就係唔得,好似你講果d真係會俾d識野果d人笑,掉香港人面,我唔講,得閒搵我,多謝。



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永不停步 2016-3-8 12:18 PM

Kit,已經說了給你聽,虛假的讚美你聽得太多了,一遇到啲高手你已經露底,我只是覺得你有改進的地方,題出給你參考一吓,你已經不能接受了,這樣你絕不可能有多大進步。還有在自唱區的虛假讚美不要當真呀,害了你。



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 12:26 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:49 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437358113&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


用手機語音,有乜問題?得就係得,唔得就係唔得,好似你講果d真係會俾d識野果d人笑,掉香港人面,我唔講,得閒搵我,多謝。



[img]http://n2.hk/d/images/r10/mobile.jpg[/img] [/quote]

師兄講真你每一個post只會講用pharyngeal,
pharyngeal上高音系確係一重唔錯既方法, 我自己都會用,但單靠pharyngeal我認爲唔夠全面。我講既野冇其實冇咩好笑,係你狗眼看人低姐,你重叫我去@ 你,你係咪有病?。

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 12:43 PM 編輯 [/i]]

kitkatfun 2016-3-8 12:42 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]永不停步[/i] 於 2016-3-8 12:18 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437359517&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Kit,已經說了給你聽,虛假的讚美你聽得太多了,一遇到啲高手你已經露底,我只是覺得你有改進的地方,題出給你參考一吓,你已經不能接受了,這樣你絕不可能有多大進步。還有在自唱區的ŗ ... [/quote]

師兄你好,我完全唔介意wukin 兄說我唱歌如何,因爲我覺得自己還有好多進步空間, 單係這自唱區都好多人唱歌好過我好多,but just because I am not an excellent singer does not mean all of my comments on singing technique are invalid. Wukin認爲我講既歌唱字眼卑人笑死,掉人面。。我其實同wukin 兄分享既冇咩huge分別,只係他覺得我用詞係冇人用笑死人 but you can look up extended chest voice, vocal fry, chest voice, belting, those are indeed commonly used terms, 你認爲我唔識好似wukin 一輪嘴用曬英文, 我在美國都30 年了...好多concept用曬英文我lum會容易表達好多。 but this is a Chinese forum so I tried not to use too much English.

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 12:45 PM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 12:50 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 12:26 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437359851&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


師兄講真你每一個post只會講用pharyngeal,
pharyngeal上高音系確係一重唔錯既方法, 我自己都會用,但單靠pharyngeal我認爲唔夠全面。我講既野冇其實冇咩好笑,係你狗眼看人低姐,你重叫我去@ 你,你係咪 ... [/quote]

你明唔明,ok,你有chest同head voice,無裉換聲,但是head voice始終係偏假,一般人一聽就是假聲,你要高又要真,必須用pharyngeal,它是中聲,作為提問者,如何像Bon jovi,我就會假設你其他都ok,咁你只係差pharyngeal張head同chest拉在一起,所以我會回答pharyngeal。



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 12:56 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 12:26 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437359851&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


師兄講真你每一個post只會講用pharyngeal,
pharyngeal上高音系確係一重唔錯既方法, 我自己都會用,但單靠pharyngeal我認爲唔夠全面。我講既野冇其實冇咩好笑,係你狗眼看人低姐,你重叫我去@ 你,你係咪 ... [/quote]

Pharyngeal 我地根本冇可以凈係用佢,咽是不可能單獨發聲,就是說用pharyngeal,你必須同頭聲或胸聲一起用,已經係mix voice。我唔會講一些漂亮嘅話,chest就是胸聲,belt係大部分為胸聲的混聲,所以chest+Belt?,用extended chest voice真聲上高音,有可能嗎?扯死人。如果我得罪你,我非常抱歉!



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 01:00 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 12:50 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437361095&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


你明唔明,ok,你有chest同head voice,無裉換聲,但是head voice始終係偏假,一般人一聽就是假聲,你要高又要真,必須用pharyngeal,它是中聲,作為提問者,如何像Bon jovi,我就會假設你其他都ok,咁你只係差p ... [/quote]

hi wukin, there is either misunderstanding, I would like to elaborate again, if someone is a baritone, in order to sing chesty rock style C5 like bon jovi, using pharyngeal resonance is a must, but in order to achieve the rock style vocal, adding vocal fry to the mix is also important. If someone is a tenor or counter-tenor, you can get away belting out C5 for tenor or D5 and even e5 for counter-tenor, but in the long run it is probably going to take a toll on their voice.

Wukin2 2016-3-8 01:09 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 12:42 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437360635&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


師兄你好,我完全唔介意wukin 兄說我唱歌如何,因爲我覺得自己還有好多進步空間, 單係這自唱區都好多人唱歌好過我好多,but just because I am not an excellent singer does not mean all of my comment ... [/quote]

首先我講句sorry,我沒心得罪任何人,我時不時會留意香討,一般我唔會留言,講多錯講,好似咁次,但我睇唔過某一d事情我就會文,sorry,唱歌就係好難,但係有人問也必須用別人能聽懂的話,唔係用一d連自己都唔知岩唔岩嘅term,又要sorry,總之就唔好意思,希望你理解。



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 01:17 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:00 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437361658&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


hi wukin, there is either misunderstanding, I would like to elaborate again, if someone is a baritone, in order to sing chesty rock style C5 like bon jovi, using pharyngeal resonance is a must, bu ... [/quote]

That's why you don't still understand the concept of the mix. MIX VOICE don't EXIT without pharyngeal. Another thing is vocal fry, we don't say use vocal fry, we say edge.But of course, edge is also very important. You have the understand what each part of our voice does. Head resonance provides release. Chest resonance provides fullness. Pharyngeal blends chest and head and become mix voice. And the last edge is letting us shift resonances seamlessly. What edge does is compressing our vocal cord together without getting blow off and becoming falsetto.



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 01:19 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:17 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437362478&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


That's why you don't still understand the concept of the mix. MIX VOICE don't EXIT without pharyngeal. Another thing is vocal fry, we don't say use vocal fry, we say edge.But of course, edge is al ... [/quote]

Exist. Can't edit in mobile mode.



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 01:24 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:00 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437361658&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


hi wukin, there is either misunderstanding, I would like to elaborate again, if someone is a baritone, in order to sing chesty rock style C5 like bon jovi, using pharyngeal resonance is a must, bu ... [/quote]

I'm no teacher not tenor. I won't say it is possible or not for tenor or countertenor which is super rare to belt out C5 and up. I say what I know and confirm by teachers and experienced singers. But you simply don't know what you saying or at least you think  you are correct but no. I'm sorry. I am maybe rude. I'm just trying to help. no offense. sorry.



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kitkatfun 2016-3-8 10:39 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:17 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437362478&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


That's why you don't still understand the concept of the mix. MIX VOICE don't EXIT without pharyngeal. Another thing is vocal fry, we don't say use vocal fry, we say edge.But of course, edge is al ... [/quote]

hi wukin, 你大至講旳我都認同,edge singing 其實就係要靠vocal fry thin out the vocal cord 唱高音, 但他最終既result 就係練到實而唔"sip"氣既音色,而rock 唱腔就係用vocal fry 作出一些絲裂既音色效果, 用唔同vocal fry 控制這texture, 但resonance 係靠唱歌用什麼共鳴, pharyngeal resonance is only one of them, as far as "mixed" voice is concern, 還可用 mask resonance, placement 係比較向前,你如果用mask resonance 唱mix, 音色會冇pharyngeal咁尖厚,好多人學SLS 拒地會用mask resonance 唱 mix 上高音,但你會發覺拒地唱歌高音冇乜力水, 我上高音示付咩類型既歌,舒情歌我會用多些mask resonance, 高音要厚實些會用多些 pharyngeal resonance, 如果系rock 歌就要加番多些vocal fry...

kitkatfun 2016-3-8 10:50 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:09 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437362055&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


首先我講句sorry,我沒心得罪任何人,我時不時會留意香討,一般我唔會留言,講多錯講,好似咁次,但我睇唔過某一d事情我就會文,sorry,唱歌就係好難,但係有人問也必須用別人能聽懂的話,唔係用一d連自己都唔知 ... [/quote]

thanks wukin, no hard feelings. 我雖然唔係專業,但我對學唱歌技巧既知識這幾年也不停去研究,其實我認爲文字上講既確好有限,我自己學得最多就係聽人地錄音和視頻。 我也希望多些人能夠用錄音或視頻去分享歌唱心得,youtube 都有好多唔同教學,但粵語教學確好少。。

kitkatfun 2016-3-8 11:20 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 01:24 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437362849&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


I'm no teacher not tenor. I won't say it is possible or not for tenor or countertenor which is super rare to belt out C5 and up. I say what I know and confirm by teachers and experienced singers.  ... [/quote]

你好啊,要belt C5對係男中音,如果這首歌係得幾個字到C5既話你用適量既belting都可以唱到,但如果這首歌好多字都係C5 以上咁真係唔可以用belting 唱, 因爲負荷太大。 for example, 我係男中音,你聽下我唱這首 ”像瘋了一樣“後段高音係belt 唱, 如果好似”死了都要愛“, C5 太多就唔可以了。

[url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPlkaIa8Jxk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPlkaIa8Jxk[/url]

對於 tenor 和counter-tenor C5 對他們來講難度唔高, their ceiling is higher, so when they sing C5 chest resonance is still very strong.

[[i] 本帖最後由 kitkatfun 於 2016-3-8 11:21 PM 編輯 [/i]]

Wukin2 2016-3-8 11:30 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]kitkatfun[/i] 於 2016-3-8 10:39 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437393241&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


hi wukin, 你大至講旳我都認同,edge singing 其實就係要靠vocal fry thin out the vocal cord 唱高音, 但他最終既result 就係練到實而唔"sip"氣既音色,而rock 唱腔就係用vocal fry 作出一些絲裂既音色效果,  ... [/quote]

你好,Thin out vocal cord俾你容易d換聲,換mix,換head,當然也容易上高音,你要分清楚vocal closure(閉合)同edge(邊緣化))嘅分別,好類似但有分別,長偏大論我唔講,一講到resonance,你唔係sls,俾我感覺唔夠精,學得太亂,mask resonance,twang,pharyngeal係同一樣野,你google下,placement係自動,亦可以被動,



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 11:38 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:30 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437396890&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


你好,Thin out vocal cord俾你容易d換聲,換mix,換head,當然也容易上高音,你要分清楚vocal closure(閉合)同edge(邊緣化))嘅分別,好類似但有分別,長偏大論我唔講,一講到resonance,你唔係sls,俾 ... [/quote]

Placement,可以話好重要,但係唔重要,胸聲placement係口腔,頭聲placement係鼻腔,但是用混聲時,placement係咽,唔會在因為高低高而浮動,而靠前或靠後,實際都是靠后因為咽(pharyngeal),而靠前是一個感覺而已,太多野一時3克講唔曬。



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Wukin2 2016-3-8 11:41 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:38 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437397434&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Placement,可以話好重要,但係唔重要,胸聲placement係口腔,頭聲placement係鼻腔,但是用混聲時,placement係咽,唔會在因為高低高而浮動,而靠前或靠後,實際都是靠后因為咽(pharyngeal),而靠前是一個感覺而 ... [/quote]

可以話好重要,但係可以話唔重要**



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kitkatfun 2016-3-9 01:14 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Wukin2[/i] 於 2016-3-8 11:30 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=437396890&ptid=25599731][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


你好,Thin out vocal cord俾你容易d換聲,換mix,換head,當然也容易上高音,你要分清楚vocal closure(閉合)同edge(邊緣化))嘅分別,好類似但有分別,長偏大論我唔講,一講到resonance,你唔係sls,俾 ... [/quote]

hi wukin, thanks for your explanation, from my own singing experience, mask/nasal is more front forward, you can sing through first bridge quite well but it is difficult to pass thru second bridge unless you soften the compression of the vocal cord before moving to head voice...whereas using pharyngeal I can go from 1st bridge to 2nd bridge all the way through my vocal ranges much more connected and the tone, especially head-mix would sound meatier/chesty than not using pharyngeal.

keltonmusic 2016-3-14 09:23 PM

唱歌技巧討論區終於有人討論la!! xD
其實依我睇要唱到比較真音既高音如bon jovi
首先要清楚4樣野既配撘
一般人既真音既配撘
1.聲帶閉合
2.高喉頭
3.吊鐘沒有上升
4.用丹田力
一般人假音既配撘
1.聲帶不閉合or閉合(head voice)
2.喉頭放鬆
3.吊鐘升至近頭位置
4.沒有用丹田力
比較近真音既mix voice
1.聲帶閉合
2.喉嚨放鬆
3.吊鐘微微上升(不高過鼻)
4.用丹田力
我研究了好多練習去令自己容易地搵到合適既配搭
不過用文字好難形容,遲d睇下有冇機會拍片分享XD
另外bon jovi 會有pop rock經常使用既rock聲加係高音到
開始練要慢慢搵到個摩擦點先



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fish_huen 2016-5-4 01:52 AM

多謝分享



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garykyl 2016-5-25 12:28 AM

継續討論落去,唔好停.
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