查看完整版本 : 寫半音音階一問(5級樂理)

tonylau310 2017-10-3 10:39 AM

寫半音音階一問(5級樂理)

小弟做緊2014年 GRADE 5 THEORY C卷


有一題題目要求寫一個八度既Bb下行半音音階
我寫左: Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-[b]E[/b]-Eb-D-Db-C-B-Bb
但答案係: Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-[b][color=#ff0000]Fb[/color][/b]-Eb-D-Db-C-B-Bb

想問師兄們, 點解要突登加個多餘既Flat? 同埋仲有無其他潛規則? 幾時先要加幾時唔洗?:smile_27::smile_27:

[[i] 本帖最後由 tonylau310 於 2017-10-3 10:40 AM 編輯 [/i]]

wan9898 2017-10-3 04:16 PM

唔知, 但理論上係正確既. 因Fb同E係異名同音.

siupercy 2017-10-3 04:19 PM

乜係寫?唔係畫音符既咩?:smile_53:

tonylau310 2017-10-3 05:51 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]siupercy[/i] 於 2017-10-3 04:19 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468790847&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
乜係寫?唔係畫音符既咩?:smile_53: [/quote]


yes, 用全音符寫出一個八度下行半音音階

un7un7 2017-10-4 11:11 AM

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[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-10-10 08:39 PM 編輯 [/i]]

siupercy 2017-10-4 11:19 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]tonylau310[/i] 於 2017-10-3 05:51 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468795199&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



yes, 用全音符寫出一個八度下行半音音階 [/quote]


如果係五線譜上畫音符,照計同音異名應該唔影響你考試,因為 E, Fb 都係同一位置畫個全音符落去。所以唔係好明點解你咁問。:smile_13:

tonylau310 2017-10-4 11:44 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]un7un7[/i] 於 2017-10-4 11:11 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468827618&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Maybe it's more chromatic and less diatonic. B instead of Cb for a more formal voice leading at the end. Not really sure:smile_41: [/quote]

即是同interval有關?

tonylau310 2017-10-4 11:46 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]siupercy[/i] 於 2017-10-4 11:19 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468828008&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



如果係五線譜上畫音符,照計同音異名應該唔影響你考試,因為 E, Fb 都係同一位置畫個全音符落去。所以唔係好明點解你咁問。:smile_13: [/quote]

唔係啊, 我畫係E4, 但答案畫係F4加個flat
所以錯

siupercy 2017-10-4 11:54 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]tonylau310[/i] 於 2017-10-4 11:46 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468829443&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


唔係啊, 我畫係E4, 但答案畫係F4加個flat
所以錯 [/quote]


咁我估我明你講乜啦。以我所知一條線最多畫兩個音,所以如果 E 線你已經畫左兩個音,咁你再想畫 E 音時,就唯有畫落 F 線加 b。

tonylau310 2017-10-4 12:21 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]siupercy[/i] 於 2017-10-4 11:54 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468829863&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



咁我估我明你講乜啦。以我所知一條線最多畫兩個音,所以如果 E 線你已經畫左兩個音,咁你再想畫 E 音時,就唯有畫落 F 線加 b。 [/quote]

規則我有跟,
1) 每個音高只寫一次
2) 每一條線及每一條間都要有一個音符
3) 同一條線或同一條間不可以有多於2個音符
4) 盡量減少使用臨時記號
但我答案只有兩個E, 沒超出限制啊:smile_27::smile_27:
所以我估係咪有其他潛規則

siupercy 2017-10-4 02:45 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]tonylau310[/i] 於 2017-10-4 12:21 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468831200&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


規則我有跟,
1) 每個音高只寫一次
2) 每一條線及每一條間都要有一個音符
3) 同一條線或同一條間不可以有多於2個音符
4) 盡量減少使用臨時記號
但我答案只有兩個E, 沒超出限制啊:smile_27::smile_27:
所以我 ... [/quote]


以我有限公司,我相信你既答案都啱,唔會扣分。等其他師兄姐補充啦!:smile_35:

un7un7 2017-10-4 03:11 PM

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[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-10-10 08:40 PM 編輯 [/i]]

生力嘉 2017-10-4 04:22 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]tonylau310[/i] 於 2017-10-3 10:39 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468775912&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
小弟做緊2014年 GRADE 5 THEORY C卷


有一題題目要求寫一個八度既Bb下行半音音階
我寫左: Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-E-Eb-D-Db-C-B-Bb
但答案係: Bb-A-Ab-G-Gb-F-Fb-Eb-D-Db-C-B-Bb

想問師兄們, 點解要突登加個多餘既 ... [/quote]


樓主咁寫係冇錯的, 答案亦都冇錯, 因為同一個音可以有幾個名,
只要跟番你列的規則去寫便可, 留意上行時好多位要加番還原符號
另此題你又仲可以咁寫都冇錯的(不過好少會咁做)
Bb- A-G#-G-F#-F-E-Eb-D-C#-C-B-Bb
只要每個音不超過2次, 可以有#b同時出現, 記得還原符號

un7un7 2017-10-5 10:51 AM

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[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-10-10 08:40 PM 編輯 [/i]]

tonylau310 2017-10-6 10:22 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]un7un7[/i] 於 2017-10-5 10:51 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468873033&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
According to wiki, an equal-tempered chromatic scale is a nondiatonic scale having no tonic because of the symmetry of its equally spaced notes.

If the answer (the one has F♭ in the middle)  ... [/quote]


原來係咁 😯,多謝各位的解答

咁我又想問多句,點樣判斷佢每個音係咪都對稱,均等same size呢?

例如 Fb to Eb is more complete than E to Eb 是點樣計算出來?

un7un7 2017-10-6 03:45 PM

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[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-10-10 08:41 PM 編輯 [/i]]

tonylau310 2017-10-6 04:24 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]un7un7[/i] 於 2017-10-6 03:45 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468937074&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

U are welcome:loveliness:
Since each note in a chromatic scale is semitone higher/lower than another, the scale is symmertrical.
Fb to Eb is preferable since it avoids F-E which is a combination w ... [/quote]


im still so confused:lDD_005:  but thank you anyway!

un7un7 2017-10-6 05:29 PM

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[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-10-10 08:42 PM 編輯 [/i]]

tonylau310 2017-10-9 10:53 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]un7un7[/i] 於 2017-10-6 05:29 PM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468941965&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

Never mind. Simply to say, avoid to write C-B / F-E / E-F / B-C in the chromatic scale  except the 3 beginning notes and the 3 last notes.

e.g.  D#-E-F-F#-G-G#-A-A#-B-B#-C#-D-D#
         
     ... [/quote]

雖然唔知道個原理是點解,但我背左佢先! :loveliness:
唔該師兄!

un7un7 2017-10-9 05:51 PM

You're welcome.:loveliness:  But still recommend to find more ABRSM reference books and model answers for further confirmation.

szymanowskiyip 2017-12-8 10:26 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]tonylau310[/i] 於 2017-10-4 11:46 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=468829443&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


唔係啊, 我畫係E4, 但答案畫係F4加個flat
所以錯 [/quote]

我最好奇係: 你個所謂"答案"喺邊度黎
如果係出面的MODEL ANSWER, 你應該當做SUGGESTED ANSWER, 唔係唯一的ANSWER
另外, 有樣野係,
sharp - tendency of going up
flat - tendency of going down
你上行寫多啲SHARP會寫少啲/易啲, 反之亦然
不過好少會特登寫F-FLAT, 因為冇必要

un7un7 2017-12-8 11:36 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]szymanowskiyip[/i] 於 2017-12-8 10:26 AM 發表 [url=http://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=472078544&ptid=26966707][img]http://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


我最好奇係: 你個所謂"答案"喺邊度黎
如果係出面的MODEL ANSWER, 你應該當做SUGGESTED ANSWER, 唔係唯一的ANSWER
另外, 有樣野係,
sharp - tendency of going up
flat - tendency of going down
你上 ... [/quote]

呢個scale係melodic chromatic scale in C major(因為冇key indication冇key signature, 同埋A minor 會多啲accidental),而且根據AB Guide "During the second half of the 19th century and the early part of the 20th, the use of chromatic notes developed to such an extent that any feeling of tonality (being in a key) was often weakened", 咁個scale中間位可能需要額外chromatic inflection to avoid diatonic semitone interval(s).都係參詳多啲同款問題嘅ABRSM modern answers會穩固啲


The method about the chromatic inflection could be only parallel to make any comparisons about rigidity of different chromatic scales.

[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-12-13 10:11 PM 編輯 [/i]]

un7un7 2017-12-13 10:09 PM

Harmonic chromatic scale
(in Bb major/minor): Bb A Ab G Gb F E Eb D Db C Cb Bb
(in C major): Bb A Ab G F# F♮ E Eb D Db C B Bb
(in A minor): Bb A G# G♮ F# F♮ E D# D♮ C# C♮ B Bb

Melodic chromatic scale
(in Bb major): Bb A Ab G Gb F Fb Eb D Db C Cb Bb
(in Bb minor): Bb A Ab G Gb F Fb Eb Ebb Db C Cb Bb
(in C major): Bb A Ab G Gb F E Eb D Db C B Bb
(in A minor): Bb A G# G♮ F# F♮ E Eb D Db C B Bb

The model answer is probably from the melodic chromatic scale in Bb major, with alteration similar to the 2nd example from piece by Mozart shown in the AB Guide.

[[i] 本帖最後由 un7un7 於 2017-12-14 10:26 AM 編輯 [/i]]
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