查看完整版本 : BMW E90 小試LiFePO4 鐵鋰電池 感覺

yeukfung 2018-7-14 05:30 PM

BMW E90 小試LiFePO4 鐵鋰電池 感覺

Hi,

近日小弟部E90,升玩鐵鋰電池行左超過1000KM 了,當中試過停車6天做長期測試,做左好多穩壓測試,有幾點可以同大家分享:

1) 啟動好快鬼快, 唔識點形容
2)低扭好實淨,由1000 轉上3000轉,再上5000 - 6000 全部都好快,反應好左好多,相信同佢低內阻有關...

深入D既數據資料,我有以下幾個但用英文寫會快D...:

LFP電池base voltage: 12.8V, lead acid 12.0V
14.4V constant voltage can charge the LFP to 100%, but with the alternator output, it will only keep the voltage at 14.05V, which means 90% of battery capacity can be maintained.

For the LFP I used, it's 60AH, so, only around 55AH is inside the battery.

- CCA Testing within this 1000km, it's varies from 1150 to 1200 CCA, it does not rise or drop much, more or less keep stable in this 1000KM journey, while comparing to 90AH AGM, it was around 900CCA to 930CCA

- Internal resistance testing, it's varies from 2.35mOhm to 2.5mOhm , while comparing to AGM, it is around 3.0mOhm to 3.2mOhm

- voltage drop during cold start, the MIN voltage recorded is 11.8V - 11.9V , while i didn't record the AGM, but for 60AH battery, it's very strong

- alternator output test for cold start, I use inpa to monitor the generator AMP from cold start to warm up, there is two case:
1) your battery is full - the max AMP generated from alternator is around 100Amp for around 20 seconds, and eventually drop to 20Amp within 1 minutes, and the charge of battery reach 14.05V
2) your battery is NOT full - the max AMP generated from alternator is 170Amp for over 1-2 minutes, and start to drop when battery voltage reaches 13.8V and then eventually goes down to 14.05V after 2 minutes, and then back to 20Amp.

- temperature test, i don't have equipment, just use hand to test several area, I can say... does not feel any heat/warm on the battery, just normal and usual


drawback to my car with IBS:
- IBS is now partially working, as it no longer able to detect battery capacity when it's in sleep mode, it can still read the battery terminal voltage.

====

用後感:

- 有兩次因為玩CODING無插叉機,用左可能10% 電,著車時發現點解個轉數响800RPM成分幾兩分鐘,唔太正常,CHECK完發現BMW佢會MON住個電池電壓,唔夠13.8V時佢會FULL LOAD咁樣差粒電, 成180A... (雖然我極之反對,但始終人地係打南磨,唔係叉機), 跟住慢慢上番14.05V 就正常番)若果粒電好乾的話,真係好容易整死個打南磨..


- 買番來時一定要叉足電, 我買番來時有13.17V, 好似好正常,跟住我用8A既叉機去叉,叉左成4個半鐘CC先慢慢行CV, 所以有成32AH叉左入去, 若果呢32AH 係個打南磨叉既話,真係會整傷部車。。。 (我唔知家陣出邊賣既電池會唔會咁,但呢一樣野大家注意下會安全D)

- 一下重腳的 DME(KL87 點火果邊的VOLTAGE) VOLTAGE DROP 就明顯唔同,之前我AGM 90AH 電壓空轉踏上3000RPM 時, 90AH會跌到13.0V左右, 但家陣果個大部份都係去到13.4V,加速上都好明顯...


所以,若果真係要升級,值得的(當然要考慮價錢,香港果間感覺安全D,但小弟這個平民 貪平去左淘寶搵左間台灣研發既品牌,都有齊認証),因為LFP供電真係好穩定(若果你係玩電腦的,Lead acid = 7200 HARDDISK, AGM = 15000 SCSI Disk, LFP = SSD),當然可以考慮用超級電容做穩壓,但因為佢會慢慢DISCHARGE,所以我無考慮(之前部POLO試過,對突然加速的確有明顯較果)

升級前,確保部車無漏電先,因為粒電池唔係下下滿的話,會好傷個打南磨...

mtx-4 2018-7-14 09:03 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 2018-7-14 05:30 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483746777&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Hi,

近日小弟部E90,升玩鐵鋰電池行左超過1000KM 了,當中試過停車6天做長期測試,做左好多穩壓測試,有幾點可以同大家分享:

1) 啟動好快鬼快, 唔識點形容
2)低扭好實淨,由1000 轉上3000轉,再上5000 - 6000 全部都好快,反應好左好多,相信同佢低內阻有關...

深入D既數據資料,我有以下幾個但用英文寫會快D...:

LFP電池base vo ... [/quote]

師兄報告很詳細專業,要注意是lead acid 同LiFe電最理想嘅擺放狀態好唔同,lead acid 係100%fully charged最好,當然佢有internal leakage,所以要有float charge keep 住100% fully charged
LiFe 電卻不是這樣,你要佢maximum capacity時才fully charged,要佢耐用襟擺反而不要fully charged,大約五,六成滿時最唔傷電,只要夠撻車就足夠

yeukfung 2018-7-14 11:13 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]mtx-4[/i] 於 2018-7-14 09:03 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483758304&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


師兄報告很詳細專業,要注意是lead acid 同LiFe電最理想嘅擺放狀態好唔同,lead acid 係100%fully charged最好,當然佢有internal leakage,所以要有float charge keep 住100% fully charged
LiFe 電卻不是這樣,你要佢maximum capacity時才fully charged,要佢耐用襟擺反而不要fu ... [/quote]

Thanks CHing for the information,

部車的CHARGING ALGORITHM 其本上唔係普通人可以改到,我知AGM電池對OVERCHARGE 比較敏感, 而LFP都係一樣,所以我將部車都CODE 左去用個70AH AGM電池充電PROFILE, 然後觀察會唔會過充, so far 最高都係14.8V output, 到電池頭就最高14.2V...

觀察著完車後個打南磨基本用Constant Voltage 14.1 - 14.2V 叉住粒電, 照咁樣睇就應該90 - 95%滿,呢個水位好似都有3000個CYCLE,可以玩三五年已值回票價了..

sikling135 2018-7-15 01:02 AM

正常普通電磁壽命可用幾多年?我剛剛著感嘆號要換電,今日開始每次著車都提示要較日期時間

yeukfung 2018-7-15 08:42 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]sikling135[/i] 於 2018-7-15 01:02 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483773446&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

正常普通電磁壽命可用幾多年?我剛剛著感嘆號要換電,今日開始每次著車都提示要較日期時間 [/quote]

For your case, it's *maybe* related to battery issue, below the thread seems match your case...
[url]https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=767262&page=2[/url]

- some can fixes by simply replacing the battery + driving and stop and wait ( because the driving cycle will learn the health of car, and save everytime when it turns off and wait for 5 minutes until DME sleep)

- some say need to code the battery to proper rating, e.g. if your car comes with 70AH, while some store upsell you to use 100ah, then it is the wrong battery type for your car, unless you have code your car to 100Ah and do battery registration to use it.

- some say it's electrical leakage... which you may consider, or even weak alternator...

as you can start the car everytime, so i think it would be weak battery... and either coding improperly or aged battery, and weak alternator... If the problem is identified, it's easy to fixes, so no worry... at least i fixed mine, and now the car run like a monster...

normally for a healthy and properly coded E90 without leakage, battery should have at least 3-4 yrs ... and for my friend using varta, he's been using 5 years which is still strong, internal resistance just 5mOhm (didn't do registration, but low with milage).

as what the #2 thread ching said, lead acid prefer full charge to keep their life, if your car has minor leakage, then the battery life will drops dramatically as the battery isn't full charged...

what i recommend you to check:
- do an alternator test, ISTA has a very good function to do it...
- do a battery internal resistance and CCA testing (if resistance is over 6mOhm, it should be replaced), test the CCA at battery pole and CCA at engine bay, see if any huge difference, and also the resistance.
- try to charge your battery and see how fast from the current voltage , say 12.2V to 12.6V with the current you put in, then you may estimate how much AH left in your battery
- if your car has equip with IBS (didn't disconnected by some store during battery replacement and still working), then it is easier, it will store some historical current draw data in the chips, and ISTA can easily read those data out... below is the IBS look at negative battery terminal, then you know how your car does, it can check if your can enter deep sleep mode, and the current draw in last month will logged and saved in DME
[img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ta0anFAeU2Q/hqdefault.jpg[/img]
- if your car don't have IBS, then leakage test may need to conduct and check which area may be the root cause of leakage.. that a pain and time consuming process..


hope this help...

ac_schnitzer 2018-7-15 08:52 AM

Thx CHING
不過如果呢款電池放車頭,會否好易熱死?

yeukfung 2018-7-15 09:19 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]ac_schnitzer[/i] 於 2018-7-15 08:52 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483781199&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Thx CHING
不過如果呢款電池放車頭,會否好易熱死? [/quote]

我都幫我個HONDA FRIEND 研究緊,雖然問賣家,佢地實話無問題...

我不是電池專家。。。都係網上睇睇睇。。。

但我研究過程 發現家下果D電車的快充,主要靠散熱(水冷或其他方法)系統來減低溫度先可以做到大電流健康地流入流出電池,起碼知道OVERHEAT對電池係有影響...

若果個電池來來去去都係30-50A進出,由電池出既熱有限,所以大部份熱係由車頭慢慢入去電池,佢地都用緊隔熱物料,但車頭最少都7-80度...我都搵緊有乜物料可以好有效散熱及隔熱,同埋睇下點樣可以導D風入去吹粒電池...... 起碼做多小小野自身感覺安全D。。。

ac_schnitzer 2018-7-15 09:20 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 2018-7-15 09:19 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483781967&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


我都幫我個HONDA FRIEND 研究緊,雖然問賣家,佢地實話無問題...

我不是電池專家。。。都係網上睇睇睇。。。

但我研究過程 發現家下果D電車的快充,主要靠散熱(水冷或其他方法)系統來減低溫度先可以做到大電流健康地流入流出電池,起碼知道OVERHEAT對電池係有影響...

若果個電池來來去去都係30-50A進出,由電池出既熱有限,所以大部份熱係由車頭慢慢入去電池, ... [/quote]
師兄可否pm 淘條Link 俾我研究下?🙏

subming 2018-7-15 11:27 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 15/7/2018 09:19 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483781967&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


我都幫我個HONDA FRIEND 研究緊,雖然問賣家,佢地實話無問題...

我不是電池專家。。。都係網上睇睇睇。。。

但我研究過程 發現家下果D電車的快充,主要靠散熱(水冷或其他方法)系統來減低溫度先可以做到大電流健康地流入流出電池,起碼知道OVERHEAT對電池係有影響...

若果個電池來來去去都係30-50A進出,由電池出既熱有限,所以大部份熱係由車頭慢慢入去電池, ... [/quote]
改位簡單好多

yeukfung 2018-7-15 12:09 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]subming[/i] 於 2018-7-15 11:27 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483787689&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

改位簡單好多 [/quote]


呢個方法可否分享多些給小弟,因為我無這方面的概念...?

ac_schnitzer 2018-7-15 01:24 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]subming[/i] 於 2018-7-15 11:27 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483787689&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

改位簡單好多 [/quote]
改去車尾放,大工程wor
又要放棄坦spare tyre, 除非用run flat 否則真係要諗諗

subming 2018-7-15 02:56 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 15/7/2018 12:09 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483789913&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



呢個方法可否分享多些給小弟,因為我無這方面的概念...? [/quote]
概念.........
計下線粗、最近電池加灰士保護車尾至頭呢段、係水電就加喉管引出車外排出差電池產生既氣體

Faman 2018-7-15 03:00 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 2018-7-14 11:13 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483766774&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Thanks CHing for the information,

部車的CHARGING ALGORITHM 其本上唔係普通人可以改到,我知AGM電池對OVERCHARGE 比較敏感, 而LFP都係一樣,所以我將部車都CODE 左去用個70AH AGM電池充電PROFILE, 然後觀察會唔會過充, so far 最高都係14.8V output, 到電池頭就最高14.2V...
... [/quote]

過路分享。小弟都用鋰鐵池1年多了,充電超快和電壓穩定, 真係istop車絕配。又因為電壓長期處於穩定地高,拆火咀觀察到燃燒都比較好。但因為差電 會用上更大的電流,建議加番一條地線,效果更好

yeukfung 2018-7-15 04:33 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]subming[/i] 於 2018-7-15 02:56 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483799578&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

概念.........
計下線粗、最近電池加灰士保護車尾至頭呢段、係水電就加喉管引出車外排出差電池產生既氣體 [/quote]

了解,對我現時來說是大工程...

yeukfung 2018-7-15 04:38 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Faman[/i] 於 2018-7-15 03:00 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483799805&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


過路分享。小弟都用鋰鐵池1年多了,充電超快和電壓穩定, 真係istop車絕配。又因為電壓長期處於穩定地高,拆火咀觀察到燃燒都比較好。但因為差電 會用上更大的電流,建議加番一條地線,效果更好 ... [/quote]

謝師兄分享,我都相信電壓穩定應該會燒得好好多,遲下我試下換埋DENSO TT火咀試下有無仲好D...

skikk2 2018-7-15 10:10 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 2018-7-14 05:30 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483746777&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Hi,

近日小弟部E90,升玩鐵鋰電池行左超過1000KM 了,當中試過停車6天做長期測試,做左好多穩壓測試,有幾點可以同大家分享:

1) [color=#ff0000]啟動好快鬼快, 唔識點形容[/color]
2)低扭好實淨,由1000 轉上3000轉,再上5000 - 6000 [color=#ff0000]全部都好快,反應好左好多[/color],相信同佢低內阻有關...

深入D既數據資料,我有以下幾個但用英文寫會快D...:

LFP電池base vo ... [/quote]


I have the feeling that your DME has been fooled because you have registered the LFP as an AGM.  So the DME wrongly assessed the battery as fully charged given that LFP battery has a higher voltage ... so the DME (not worrying about battery charging) dedicated 100% the engine power to engine performance.  


I could be wrong ?? ... :smile_41:

skikk2 2018-7-15 10:24 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Faman[/i] 於 2018-7-15 03:00 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483799805&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


過路分享。小弟都用鋰鐵池1年多了,充電超快和電壓穩定, 真係istop車絕配。又因為電壓長期處於穩定地高,拆火咀觀察到燃燒都比較好。但因為差電 會用上更大的電流,建議加番一條地線,效果更好 ... [/quote]


Faman師兄,令人羨慕,一面玩cap bank ,一面玩LFP,勁! :smile_o12:

Faman 2018-7-15 10:54 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]skikk2[/i] 於 2018-7-15 10:24 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483826780&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



Faman師兄,令人羨慕,一面玩cap bank ,一面玩LFP,勁! :smile_o12: [/quote]

Cap bank原來車裏面已經係標準配置,唔再需要再加外置cap bank了

yeukfung 2018-7-16 09:05 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Faman[/i] 於 2018-7-15 10:54 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483828747&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Cap bank原來車裏面已經係標準配置,唔再需要再加外置cap bank了 [/quote]
請問是什麼MODEL原車配CAPACITOR BANK?

yeukfung 2018-7-16 09:31 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]skikk2[/i] 於 2018-7-15 10:10 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483825894&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



I have the feeling that your DME has been fooled because you have registered the LFP as an AGM.  So the DME wrongly assessed the battery as fully charged given that LFP battery has a higher volt ... [/quote]


Yes, the DME is fooled.

I am still decoding what is charging profile means to BMW... may try to gather some more case with lead acid, and agm profile and see any difference...

As far as from my observation, it seems that IBS has 3 purposes, comparing to the car which does not have IBS:
a) monitor the charging voltage at battery terminal, so DME is actually reading this value to decide how hard should the alternator works to maintain the voltage at battery to around 14.05V to 14.1V (which is the healthy voltage for AGM battery)
b) monitor the standby current when car is in sleep mode, this is good as we can easily identify any electrical system leaks..
c) monitor the battery capacity left in the battery, tell DME to shut off ALL unnecessary equipment if detected the battery capacity is less than 30%...

for my case, a) and b) is valid and seems working properly, just now c) is not working, which is expected coz their base voltage is big difference.

For the charging pattern after the car has been cold/warm start, as the battery internal resistance is very low, and that seems able to accept the current provided by alternator so fast (like what [taguid=4323599]Faman[/taguid]   ching said, charging is very fast), but as what I read so far, fast charging is easy to overheat and degrade the cell if there is no proper cooling mechanism, so the best way to protect the lifespan of the LFP in our car seems to minimize the duration for large current to flow in/out of the cell...

So far there just been two or three times that my battery is around 70% to 80% to start the car (luckily there seems no major drops on battery properties regarding cca and internal resistance), the generator keeps full loading 180Amp to battery (my air con didn't turn on yet!) for about 2 minutes and the voltage start climbing up from 13.2 to 13.8.. and then it gradually reach 14.05, then the alternator output is drops back to around 20Amp to 30Amp


- when IBS detected terminal voltage 13.2V to 13.8V, alternator output voltage 14.8V with 180Amp
- when IBS detected terminal voltage 13.8V to 14.0V, alternator output voltage drops from 14.8V to 14.4V, with AMP is also decreasing to 80-90Amp
- when IBS detected terminal voltage at 14.05V to 14.1V, alternator output voltage drops to 14.1V to 14.2V with 20-30Amp

with this pattern, my current findings:
- the charging profile seems max out charging voltage at alternator end is 14.8V (which is good coz i don't want to overcharge), and alternator
- the charging profile seems try to make the battery voltage to reach to 14.05V as soon as possible...


so far, the car runs just fine, no error and pick up real strong, i am happy with the findings and... enjoying :-)

tgb1 2018-7-16 05:43 PM

E90舊电放係車尾箱㗎,正常用五-六年

skikk2 2018-7-16 06:23 PM

雙B某D車款,電池唔係装喺引擎倉,因為預咗裝AGM電…

ac_schnitzer 2018-7-16 06:50 PM

睇完搞到有啲心思思,雖然電在車頭,但俾分火裝隔開,應該情況無就咁放在引擎倉內咁差

skikk2 2018-7-16 07:02 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]ac_schnitzer[/i] 於 2018-7-16 06:50 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483878850&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
睇完搞到有啲心思思,雖然電在車頭,但俾分火裝隔開,應該情況無就咁放在引擎倉內咁差 [/quote]


師兄,要小心啲好…

電池出煙爆開左(optima red top) - 香港討論區  [url]https://m.discuss.com.hk/amp_viewthread.php?tid=27181669[/url]

ac_schnitzer 2018-7-16 07:07 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]skikk2[/i] 於 2018-7-16 07:02 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483879532&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



師兄,要小心啲好…

電池出煙爆開左(optima red top) - 香港討論區  https://m.discuss.com.hk/amp_viewthread.php?tid=27181669 [/quote]
本身用agm電,所以情況應該可以,度下先

Faman 2018-7-16 08:20 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]yeukfung[/i] 於 2018-7-16 09:05 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483847314&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

請問是什麼MODEL原車配CAPACITOR BANK? [/quote]

下次影張相

yeukfung 2018-7-16 08:50 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]Faman[/i] 於 2018-7-16 08:20 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483883691&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


下次影張相 [/quote]
:smile_o12:

yeukfung 2018-7-16 08:51 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]ac_schnitzer[/i] 於 2018-7-16 07:07 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483879744&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

本身用agm電,所以情況應該可以,度下先 [/quote]
祝君成功

Faman 2018-7-16 08:55 PM

16V 係cap bank

skikk2 2018-7-16 10:01 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]ac_schnitzer[/i] 於 2018-7-16 07:07 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=483879744&ptid=27577606][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

本身用agm電,所以情況應該可以,度下先 [/quote]


意思係師兄架馬仔原配AGM電池?
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