查看完整版本 : 香港的英文教育是失敗

絕種2 2019-2-18 04:35 PM

香港的英文教育是失敗

點解香港人讀甘多年英文連 code 字都會讀錯?
根本香港人那套(學英文)方法是行不通的
Pls comment

yoyo1311 2019-2-18 05:04 PM

del ...

[[i] 本帖最後由 yoyo1311 於 2019-2-18 05:08 PM 編輯 [/i]]

yoyo1311 2019-2-18 05:06 PM

[quote]原帖由 絕種2 於 2019-2-18 04:35 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495044802&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
點解香港人讀甘多年英文連 code 字都會讀錯?
根本香港人那套(學英文)方法是行不通的
Pls comment [/quote]
in general, you are correct. but in HK, only minority are needed with decent or even good english standard, the rest, including myself, just don't need no english living  their life in HK.

[[i] 本帖最後由 yoyo1311 於 2019-2-18 05:11 PM 編輯 [/i]]

corwin 2019-2-18 10:08 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]絕種2[/i] 於 2019-2-18 04:35 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495044802&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
點解香港人讀甘多年英文連 code 字都會讀錯?
根本香港人那套(學英文)方法是行不通的
Pls comment [/quote]Is your reserach paper available on the web? Like to read it in detsail. Many thanks.

jiyue2009 2019-2-19 11:46 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]corwin[/i] 於 2019-2-18 10:08 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495059300&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
Is your reserach paper available on the web? Like to read it in detsail. Many thanks. [/quote]

一個英文字母都會例如"z"

corwin 2019-2-20 01:56 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]jiyue2009[/i] 於 2019-2-19 11:46 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495114033&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


一個英文字母都會例如"z" [/quote]
not sure why you quoted my post. are you part of his research team?

勝利machine 2019-2-22 10:54 PM

舊年代香港英文出名好 黎到依家反而差晒

krzys995x8 2019-2-22 11:46 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]jiyue2009[/i] 於 2019-2-19 11:46 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495114033&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


一個英文字母都會例如"z" [/quote]

What is the problem with"Z"?

corwin 2019-2-23 01:48 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]krzys995x8[/i] 於 2019-2-22 11:46 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495263232&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


What is the problem with"Z"? [/quote]many people in HK pronounce it as "yi-set"?

我是山人 2019-2-23 06:20 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]corwin[/i] 於 2019-2-23 01:48 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495266684&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
many people in HK pronounce it as "yi-set"? [/quote]
Go to England, Australia and New Zealand, they all pronounce "z" as "yi-set".

narius 2019-2-23 07:27 AM

Lol .. we are now judging the level of language proficiency by how people pronounce some words?


On that basis, I would have to say Californians do not know how to speak English in Texas, and Texans do not know how to speak English in Ca. 

norco 2019-2-23 12:02 PM

The first English phrase you learned in Texas: hook'em
The first English name you learned in Texas: Bevo


Aggies would disagree.

[[i] 本帖最後由 norco 於 2019-2-23 12:17 PM 編輯 [/i]]

核心芳香的駱駝 2019-2-23 01:53 PM

As a Canadian myself, I found some Chinese Vancouverites still speak simple to no English at all, despite the fact that they have been around for over 20 years. Their kids, though, are CBC and are hesitant to speak Cantonese themselves. That's quite a contrast.

But I wanted to point out that those who have been around for a long time and speak simple English tend to hang out with people like themselves, so who they hang out with determines their English proficiency to an extent.

sailorbb 2019-2-23 02:55 PM

我生活圈子細
但係發覺海外華人都睇中文電視/tbb/cctv等,反而香港呢邊嘅都睇Netflix..
海外嘅識D華人演員俾我地仲多

narius 2019-2-24 01:45 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]核心芳香的駱駝[/i] 於 2019-2-23 01:53 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495283808&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
As a Canadian myself, I found some Chinese Vancouverites still speak simple to no English at all, despite the fact that they have been around for over 20 years. Their kids, though, are CBC and are hesitant to speak Cantonese themselves. That's quite a contrast.  [/quote]

I wish my kids can speak some Chinese. I think the best my younger one can do is to count from 1 to 10 in cantonese (well, heavily accented and barely making it). He told me proudly that he did order fried rice in Chinese (note Mandarin not cantonese ... my wife is from taiwan so we do not speak any cantonese at home) once when he went out with his friends.

Usually those who do not speak English are the old timers. If you go to Silicon Valley, or any large metroplex, the immigrant professionals  all speak passable, if not good English. If fact, it is not uncommon that Asians can articulate better than cacusians, even if they speak with a slight accent.

krzys995x8 2019-2-24 02:42 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]sailorbb[/i] 於 2019-2-23 02:55 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495286458&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
我生活圈子細
但係發覺海外華人都睇中文電視/tbb/cctv等,反而香港呢邊嘅都睇Netflix..
海外嘅識D華人演員俾我地仲多 [/quote]

咁你就要擴闊你嘅生活圈子喇。 我識嘅大部份都完全無睇粵/國/普語嘅節目喎。

hamsterman 2019-2-24 06:07 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]krzys995x8[/i] 於 2019-2-24 02:42 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495313124&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


咁你就要擴闊你嘅生活圈子喇。 我識嘅大部份都完全無睇粵/國/普語嘅節目喎。 [/quote]

Me too. As an American, I watch Netflix and Hulu and Vudu. I don’t have Chinese cables or satellite dish programs. I do watch some Chinese stuff when something interesting randomly pops up on Neflix, but more often than not I ended up watching some Korean movies :D because frankly they’re better (not the soap opera stuff though)

narius 2019-2-24 08:17 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]hamsterman[/i] 於 2019-2-24 06:07 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495314854&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

I do watch some Chinese stuff when something interesting randomly pops up on Neflix, but more often than not I ended up watching some Korean movies because frankly they’re better (not the soap opera stuff though)[/quote]

Chinese kung-fu movies still beat the Koreans by a mile. There is really like Ip Man on the international stage. Heck, I even have Cacasian friends who know who Ip Man is. Having said that, some korean movies are pretty good .. like that zombie train movie.

It is also a little silly to avoid Chinese movies/Tv. This language thing is really only relevant for the newcomers and those hide their whole life out in some China town. For most of us, what we watch has zero relevance on language proficiency. My wife is a big Jane Austin fan, as well as a Chinese drama fan. It is not like her friends will stop understanding her if she watches a few days of Chinese drama.

Once you are bilingual, you are forever bilingual.

Actually i wish i have more time to watch Chinese stuff. However, there is so much entertainment out there that i can hardly find enough time to finish my super hero shows. Chinese drama, while a lot is well made, is generally too long. It is really hard to invest time in them. I do try to get all the big action movies (like all the Donnie Yen movies) though.

核心芳香的駱駝 2019-2-24 03:55 PM

I am sure your kids will go places even when they may not know much Cantonese :)

I have never been to Silicon Valley, so I dont know much. But it's TRUE immigrant professionals do articulate their thoughts very well even with an accent. I worked for them quite some time in high school. They did language switch a lot, mixing Cantonese with English when Chinese kids like me hanged around.

核心芳香的駱駝 2019-2-24 04:02 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]narius[/i] 於 2019-2-24 08:17 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495315900&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Chinese kung-fu movies still beat the Koreans by a mile. There is really like Ip Man on the international stage. Heck, I even have Cacasian friends who know who Ip Man is. Having said that, some k ... [/quote]


I am more into Chinese love drama myself. The plot is so intriguing and sophisticated.

RE being bilingual, when I became bilingual from age 11 onward, my head had 2 voices from then on, so I'm forever stuck to it. On the bright side, though, I get the best of two languages and cultures. It's not so bad.

黃金工程 2019-2-24 10:01 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]絕種2[/i] 於 2019-2-18 04:35 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495044802&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
點解香港人讀甘多年英文連 code 字都會讀錯?
根本香港人那套(學英文)方法是行不通的
Pls comment [/quote]
我也不懂得分
discuss[color=#009900] dis'kʌs [/color]
disgust [color=#009900][color=#009900] dis'gʌst[/color][/color]

[color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900]是不是 細口 和 大口 的分別?[/color][/color][/color][/color]
[color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900][/color][/color][/color][/color]
[color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900]----------------[/color][/color][/color][/color]
[color=#009900][color=#009900]cold [/color][/color][color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900]kәuld[/color][/color][/color]
[color=#009900][color=#009900]close [/color][/color][color=#009900][color=#009900][color=#009900]klәuz[/color][/color][/color]
[color=#009900][color=#009900]clothes [/color][/color]kləuðz, kləuz US klouðz, klouz

以上或以下clothes的US, 是指左邊還是右邊是US?
clothes共有4個讀音, 都各有分別?

[attach]9366155[/attach]

[[i] 本帖最後由 黃金工程 於 2019-2-24 10:05 PM 編輯 [/i]]

sandtrack 2019-2-25 01:14 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]黃金工程[/i] 於 2019-2-24 10:01 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495351279&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

我也不懂得分
discuss dis'kʌs
disgust  dis'gʌst

是不是 細口 和 大口 的分別?

----------------
cold kәuld
close klәuz
clothes kləuðz, kləuz US klouðz, klouz

以上或以下clothes的US, 是指左邊還是右邊是US?
clothes ... [/quote]


discuss   [color=#4169e1][b]dɪˈ skʌs[/b][/color]
disgust   [b][color=#4169e1]dɪs ˈɡʌst[/color][/b]
你說不懂分「discuss」和「disgust」讀音上的差別,即你不能分辨「k」和「g」音。
試看一下「coal」和「goal」:
coal       [b][color=#4169e1]kəʊl →kɒʊlǁ koʊl[/color][/b]
goal       [b][color=#4169e1]ɡəʊl →ɡɒʊlǁ ɡoʊl[/color][/b]

如果你能分辨出「coal」和「goal」的讀音差別,應該可以分辨出「k」和「g」的讀音差別,從而可以分辨出「discuss」和「disgust」。
如果你覺得「coal」和「goal」讀音沒有差別,我都唔知講乜嘢好!

*********
好多字典同時附有 UK 和 US 音標,有些兼有真人發聲。
如果你不知哪一個是 UK,哪一個是 US,可以試一下輸入「schedule」。

ˈ[b][color=#4169e1]ʃedjuːl[/color][/b]  or ˈ[b][color=#4169e1]ʃedʒuːl[/color][/b] => UK
[b][color=#4169e1]ˈskedjuːl[/color][/b]  or ˈ[b][color=#4169e1]skedʒuːl[/color][/b] => US

下面截圖一擷取自[b]劍橋[/b]網上字典。
下面截圖二擷取自[b]朗文[/b]網上字典。
朗文字典習慣上都是左邊是「UK」,右邊是「US」,截圖二裡按左邊「紅色小喇叭」,會讀出UK發音,按右邊「藍色小喇叭」,會讀出US發音。

*********
clothes   [b][color=#4169e1]kləʊðz kləʊzǁ kloʊz kloʊðz[/color][/b]
即係話,有時啲人讀「clothes」會把「th」略去,不發音,不發「ð」。

[attach]9368237[/attach]

[attach]9368238[/attach]

narius 2019-2-25 01:16 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]核心芳香的駱駝[/i] 於 2019-2-24 04:02 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495334244&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
I am more into Chinese love drama myself. The plot is so intriguing and sophisticated.

RE being bilingual, when I became bilingual from age 11 onward, my head had 2 voices from then on, so I'm for ... [/quote]

Oh .. i don't mean it to be a negative. Being bilingual is great. You get to enjoy entertainment from multiple cultures in their original languages. I find subtitles distracting and would love to enjoy entertainment in the original language.

My brother is quad-lingual (Chinese, English, Japanese & Korean) and his Japaness is as good as a local (once, he took my parents to Tokyo and the cab driver thought he was a hired guide). I wish i can watch anime without subs (but i draw my line there .. NO dubs .. ever).

核心芳香的駱駝 2019-2-25 08:03 PM

haha I feel the same when I watch Japanese dramas.

My bad, I didn't mean it to be negative when I talked about being bilingual. My daytime gig has been pretty stressful lately, so I got quite pessimistic. Hope I didn't rub you in a wrong direction.

黃金工程 2019-2-25 11:52 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]sandtrack[/i] 於 2019-2-25 01:14 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495380662&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



discuss   dɪˈ skʌs
disgust   dɪs ˈɡʌst
你說不懂分「discuss」和「disgust」讀音上的差別,即你不能分辨「k」和「g」音。
試看一下「coal」和「goal」:
coal       kəʊl →kɒʊlǁ koʊl
goal       ɡəʊl →ɡɒʊlǁ ɡoʊl

如果你能分辨出「coal」和「 ... [/quote]

即前面有sk音和sg讀音, 在IPA之中, 是不是有分別
例如 scout 和 skill 的 c 和 k 會變音。

—————————————————

字典 schedule 的 發音,

劍橋為甚麼把/US/放在中間, 其實應該怎樣分隔最好?
[attach]9370317[/attach]
[attach]9370318[/attach]
[attach]9370319[/attach]

這本字典的讀音點樣睇架?
[attach]9370320[/attach]


——————————————

wh發音, 甚麼時候, 要用h音開頭?
除了what,包不包括其他
我沒有查過字典的who,why,when,whistle等,
是不是它們(wh開頭的字)在某種特定情況下,會讀h音?

[attach]9370321[/attach]
[attach]9370322[/attach]
[attach]9370323[/attach]
[attach]9370324[/attach]
[attach]9370325[/attach]
[attach]9370326[/attach]
[attach]9370327[/attach]
例:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDG0CeTOedk[/url]

[[i] 本帖最後由 黃金工程 於 2019-2-26 12:45 AM 編輯 [/i]]

sandtrack 2019-2-26 01:48 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]黃金工程[/i] 於 2019-2-25 11:52 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495408348&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
即前面有sk音和sg讀音, 在IPA之中, 是不是有分別
例如 scout 和 skill 的 c 和 k 會變音。
字典 schedul ... [/quote]



我之前發過一個帖子,見下面鏈結。
[url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=27622299&extra=&page=1]https://www.discuss.com.hk/viewthread.php?tid=27622299&extra=&page=1[/url]

該帖子 3# 25# 26# 有談及我覺得
school    [sku:l]  實際是讀 [sgu:l]
speed    [spi:d]  實際是讀 [sbi:d]

你有興趣,不妨看一下。

narius 2019-3-1 07:21 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]核心芳香的駱駝[/i] 於 2019-2-25 08:03 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495398774&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
haha I feel the same when I watch Japanese dramas.

My bad, I didn't mean it to be negative when I talked about being bilingual. My daytime gig has been pretty stressful lately, so I got quite pessimi ... [/quote]

nah .. no problem.

Interestingly, I find that Chinese is closely to Japanese, both in terms of language (duh .. the japanese language borrowed heavily from the chinese language though it also borrows from English), and culture. So when I read Japanese novels (i am reading the Kindaichi novels lately ... about the original detective, not his grandson in the manga), i prefer a Chinese translation.

However, when I read novels originally written in French (Jules Verne .. one of my fav, or Alexandre Dumas), i prefer an English translation.

Anime is an interesting case. For sci-fi or mecha type anime, sometimes an English translation is better. For something like Rurouni Kenshin, Chinese is better.

hamsterman 2019-3-1 08:27 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]narius[/i] 於 2019-3-1 07:21 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495553826&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


nah .. no problem.

Interestingly, I find that Chinese is closely to Japanese, both in terms of language (duh .. the japanese language borrowed heavily from the chinese language though it also  ... [/quote]

For manga translations a lot of it depends on the settings of original source, like in dragon ball, names like 悟空,神龍,龜波氣功,have a familiar feel to us Chinese speakers, and their English translations just seem weird until we get used to them. On the other hand, it’s fun to realize names like Trunks, Freizer, and Piccolo are play on English words, whose Chinese counterparts have no meanings.

I remember when I was a kid there’s this manga term 米加粒子炮,it sounded really cool but it makes no sense to me, but when I got older I realized what it probably was... it’s mega particles beam! Still bullshit but at least the words make some sense :lol

narius 2019-3-1 09:40 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]hamsterman[/i] 於 2019-3-1 08:27 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495555502&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


For manga translations a lot of it depends on the settings of original source, like in dragon ball, names like 悟空,神龍,龜波氣功,have a familiar feel to us Chinese speakers, and their English translation ... [/quote]

Very much so. The root cause is that the Japanese borrowed heavily from both the east and the west. It must be fun to actually know the language. At best I can tell some words from japanese dialogue (10-20%?). I wish i have the time to study it seriously.

peterpeterbbc 2019-3-2 10:10 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]narius[/i] 於 2019-2-24 01:45 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=495312180&ptid=28042646][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


I wish my kids can speak some Chinese. I think the best my younger one can do is to count from 1 to 10 in cantonese (well, heavily accented and barely making it). He told me proudly that he did or ... [/quote]


在家裏為何不跟他們說普通話?
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