查看完整版本 : 過去觀察到的永久事實應該用present tense or past tense?

dupeli 2019-4-15 09:32 PM

過去觀察到的永久事實應該用present tense or past tense?

eg. 我觀察到佢既house後面有2座山...

I observed that there were 2 mountains behind his home.
I observe that there are 2 mountains behind his home.

核心芳香的駱駝 2019-5-3 12:14 AM

hmm past tense...?

Since you make this point in the past, it might as well stay in the past. Even though a present tense should be used when you state a fact, I think this sentence is better off with a past tense throughout.

narius 2019-5-3 12:34 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]核心芳香的駱駝[/i] 於 2019-5-3 12:14 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498701732&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
hmm past tense...?

Since you make this point in the past, it might as well stay in the past. Even though a present tense should be used when you state a fact, I think this sentence is better off with ... [/quote]

Shouldn't it be dependent on the context?

"I observeD that there were 2 mountains behind his home. They ARE no longer there! Call the Avengers!"

"I observe that there are 2 mountains behind his home .. right this moment ... it used to be just one. Call the Avengers!"

I suppose i am ignoring the "永久事實" part .. but it was (or shall it be "is") fun :P

.kaxka.. 2019-5-3 12:43 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]narius[/i] 於 2019-5-3 12:34 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498702384&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


Shouldn't it be dependent on the context?

"I observeD that there were 2 mountains behind his home. They ARE no longer there! Call the Avengers!"

"I observe that there are 2 mountains behind  ... [/quote]

You are wrong professor.

narius 2019-5-3 12:54 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i].kaxka..[/i] 於 2019-5-3 12:43 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498702595&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
You are wrong professor. [/quote]

You mean:

I am the wrong professor?

I am wrong to call the avengers?

I am wrong to think that people have a sense of humor?

....

.kaxka.. 2019-5-3 12:58 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]narius[/i] 於 2019-5-3 12:54 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498702855&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


You mean:

I am the wrong professor?

I am wrong to call the avengers?

I am wrong to think that people have a sense of humor?

.... [/quote]

Wrong on the matter of this thread....

公園花花馬桶 2019-5-3 05:56 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]dupeli[/i] 於 2019-4-15 09:32 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=497849797&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
eg. 我觀察到佢既house後面有2座山...

I observed that there were 2 mountains behind his home.
I observe that there are 2 mountains behind his home. [/quote]


你既context唔係講永久事實,只係敘述過去发生的'事件(講緊第一句,第二句唔make sense)
e.g.日出東方。是永久事實。
昨天太陽由東方升起,陽光照到我的床头。是敘述过去事件,用過去式

[[i] 本帖最後由 公園花花馬桶 於 2019-5-3 06:04 PM 編輯 [/i]]

.kaxka.. 2019-5-4 02:06 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-3 05:56 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498734604&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



你既context唔係講永久事實,只係敘述過去发生的'事件(講緊第一句,第二句唔make sense)
e.g.日出東方。是永久事實。
昨天太陽由東方升起,陽光照到我的床头。是敘述过去事件,用過去式 ... [/quote]

你點睇到係敘述呀? 

公園花花馬桶 2019-5-4 11:50 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i].kaxka..[/i] 於 2019-5-4 02:06 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498754929&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


你點睇到係敘述呀?  [/quote]


是否叙事唔係咁難分啫.當然,有D句子未必分到,這情况睇tense決定

DGMan 2019-5-4 12:56 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]dupeli[/i] 於 2019-4-15 21:32 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=497849797&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
eg. 我觀察到佢既house後面有2座山...

I observed that there were 2 mountains behind his home.
I observe that there are 2 mountains behind his home. [/quote]

你這句,主要動詞為observe..
咁好簡單,因為你呢句沒有提及幾時做呢個「observe」動作;所以應該用present perfect tense:
I have observed that there have been /are 2 mountains behind his home.
否則,如果你句子有提及呢個動作係過去發生的;你就一定要用past tense:
I observed that there were 2 mountains behind his home last night.

.kaxka.. 2019-5-4 05:05 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-4 11:50 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498767413&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



是否叙事唔係咁難分啫.當然,有D句子未必分到,這情况睇tense決定 [/quote]

即係點分?
點睇都唔似敘述喎。

股神I号 2019-5-4 05:14 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]dupeli[/i] 於 2019-4-15 09:32 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=497849797&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]
eg. 我觀察到佢既house後面有2座山...

I observed that there were 2 mountains behind his home.
I observe that there are 2 mountains behind his home. [/quote]

「observe」是所謂「Reporting Verbs」,跟「say」和「tell」一般,常見於「Reported Speech」。
見下面截圖一和二。
圖二截取自劍橋網上字典。

「observe」用法有一點值得注意,當用於轉述一些研究或報告時,盡管研究寫於以前,好多時都會用「simple present tense」,例子見截圖三。

[attach]9629627[/attach]

[attach]9629628[/attach]

[attach]9629629[/attach]

.kaxka.. 2019-5-4 06:07 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-4 05:14 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498781839&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


「observe」是所謂「Reporting Verbs」,跟「say」和「tell」一般,常見於「Reported Speech」。
見下面截圖一和二。
圖二截取自劍橋網上字典。

「observe」用法有一點值得注意,當用於轉述一些研究或報告時,盡管研究寫於以前,好多時都會用「simple present tense」,例子見截圖三。

9629627

9629628 ... [/quote]

得你一個睇得明。👍👍👍

股神I号 2019-5-4 06:19 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i].kaxka..[/i] 於 2019-5-4 06:07 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498784033&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


得你一個睇得明。👍👍👍 [/quote]

暫時得你一個睇得明我睇得明,你好厲害 👍👍👍

.kaxka.. 2019-5-4 06:27 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-4 06:19 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498784509&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


暫時得你一個睇得明我睇得明,你好厲害 👍👍👍 [/quote]

得你一個睇得明我睇得明你睇得明,你仲厲害啦 👍👍👍

股神I号 2019-5-4 06:29 PM

……續12樓

「observe」呢個字,大家都知道解「[b][color=#ff0000]觀察/注意[/color][/b]」,但它的另一意思解「[b][color=#ff0000]說[/color][/b]」,不少朋友或者不知道,值得一提。

下面例句截取自劍橋網上字典。
  She [b][color=#ff0000]observed[/color][/b] that it would soon be time to stop for lunch.
  她[b][color=#ff0000]說[/color][/b]很快就到停下來吃午飯的時間了。

[attach]9629798[/attach]

[attach]9629799[/attach]

公園花花馬桶 2019-5-4 09:29 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-4 05:14 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498781839&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


「observe」是所謂「Reporting Verbs」,跟「say」和「tell」一般,常見於「Reported Speech」。
見下面截圖一和二。
圖二截取自劍橋網上字典。

「observe」用法有一點值得注意,當用於轉述一些研究或報告時,盡管研究寫於以前,好多時都會用「simple present tense」,例子見截圖三。

... [/quote]


用observe 轉述報告時用simple present tense?
1. 如果轉述嘅東西已not true for the time being 或 過去又如何?
2. 只是observe依個字係咁?依個字咁特别嘅咩?

[[i] 本帖最後由 公園花花馬桶 於 2019-5-4 09:34 PM 編輯 [/i]]

.kaxka.. 2019-5-4 10:11 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-4 09:29 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498794013&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



用observe 轉述報告時用simple present tense?
1. 如果轉述嘅東西已not true for the time being 或 過去又如何?
2. 只是observe依個字係咁?依個字咁特别嘅咩? [/quote]

佢講得冇錯喎。Academic style writing 的確係咁。

股神I号 2019-5-5 02:04 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-4 09:29 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498794013&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



用observe 轉述報告時用simple present tense?
1. 如果轉述嘅東西已not true for the time being 或 過去又如何?
2. 只是observe依個字係咁?依個字咁特别嘅咩? [/quote]



你問:
  用observe 轉述報告時用simple present tense?
我答:
  12# 我寫「"observe" 用法有一點值得注意,當用於轉述一些研究或報告時,盡管研究寫於以前,好多時都會用 "simple present tense"」
  「好多時」,唔係一定!

下面截圖一:
The research[b][color=#ff0000] observes[/color][/b] that ... [b][color=#ff0000]increases[/color][/b] ... (simple present tense + simple present tense)

下面截圖二:
... the research [b][color=#ff0000]observed[/color][/b] that ... [b][color=#ff0000]have[/color][/b] ... (simple past tense + simple present tense)

下面截圖三:
The research [b][color=#ff0000]observed[/color][/b] that ...[color=#ff0000][b] was[/b][/color] ... (simple past tense + simple past tense)

[attach]9631278[/attach]

[attach]9631279[/attach]

[attach]9631280[/attach]


你問:
  如果轉述嘅東西已not true for the time being 或 過去又如何?
我答:
  情況跟其他 「Reporting verbs」如「say / tell」等字沒有分別。


你問:
  只是observe依個字係咁?
我答:
  英語除了「observe」呢個字,還有好多其他字,我冇可能知道晒仲有冇其他字都有呢個情況!
  我冇可能識晒所有英文字!


你問:
  依個字咁特别嘅咩?
我答:
  我唔覺得呢個字有乜特別!
  你如果覺得呢個字好特別,純係你個人感覺,我唔方便發表任何意見!

沈小C 2019-5-5 10:09 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-5 02:04 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498806202&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]




你問:
  用observe 轉述報告時用simple present tense?
我答:
  12# 我寫「"observe" 用法有一點值得注意,當用於轉述一些研究或報告時,盡管研究寫於以前,好多時都會用 "simple present tense"」
  「好多時」,唔係一定!

下面截圖一:
The research observes that ... in ... [/quote]
”好多時,又不一定”,百搭喎。有边D字不是“好多時,又不一定”?真係唔知你講黎博乜

[[i] 本帖最後由 沈小C 於 2019-5-5 10:21 AM 編輯 [/i]]

股神I号 2019-5-5 11:16 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]沈小C[/i] 於 2019-5-5 10:09 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498813590&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

”好多時,又不一定”,百搭喎。有边D字不是“[b][size=4][color=#ff0000]好多時,又不一定[/color][/size][/b]”?真係唔知你講黎博乜 [/quote]



情景:

特首 2:00pm 話醫委員新方案不切實際,同日黃昏 7:00pm 英語新報道好多時會講:
  (1) Chief Executive Carrie Lam [b][color=#ff0000]says[/color][/b] the new proposal by the the Medical Council is not practical.

特首同一場合,亦有就「送中」修例講話,新聞裡可能會出現以下講話:
  (2) Carrie Lam [b][color=#ff0000]said[/color][/b] some lawmakers might have an ulterior motive in opposing the extradition law amendments.

句子(1)如果寫成下面句子(3)亦有可能:

  (3) Chief Executive Carrie Lam [b][color=#ff0000]said[/color][/b] the new proposal by the the Medical Council is not practical.

(1)用「[b][color=#ff0000]says[/color][/b]」,(3)用「[b][color=#ff0000]said[/color][/b]」 ==> 兩種時態都見到用嚟講某人的講話。


「say」呢個「reporting verb 」,當用嚟轉述某人講話時,「[b][color=#ff0000]好多時,又不一定[/color][/b]」會用「simple present tense」。
乜你冇見過?

「[b][color=#ff0000]好多時,又不一定[/color][/b]」係中文,乜你讀唔明?
我諗「[b]好多時,又不一定[/b]」可以譯作「[b]very often, but not always[/b]」。

你「[b][color=#ff0000]好多時,又不一定[/color][/b]」問啲……唉!見你話自己係「中學生」,唔講啦!
忠告:[b][size=4]你要讀好啲中文![/size][/b]

沈小C 2019-5-5 11:25 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-5 11:16 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498816168&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]




情景:

特首 2:00pm 話醫委員新方案不切實際,同日黃昏 7:00pm 英語新報道好多時會講:
  (1) Chief Executive Carrie Lam says the new proposal by the the Medical Council is not practical.

特首同一場合,亦有就「送中」修例講話,新聞裡可能會出現以下講話:
... [/quote]
所以咪話你百搭囉,好勵害:smile_30:

股神I号 2019-5-5 11:38 AM

*** 該帖被屏蔽 ***

股神I号 2019-5-5 11:40 AM

[quote] [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498817143&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


所以咪話你百搭囉,好[b][color=#ff0000]勵害[/color][/b]:smile_30: [/quote]

「勵害」應寫「厲害」,免費教一下你中文。

[[i] 本帖最後由 股神I号 於 2019-5-5 11:41 AM 編輯 [/i]]

公園花花馬桶 2019-5-5 11:55 PM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-5 11:16 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498816168&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]




情景:

特首 2:00pm 話醫委員新方案不切實際,同日黃昏 7:00pm 英語新報道好多時會講:
  (1) Chief Executive Carrie Lam says the new proposal by the the Medical Council is not practical.

特首同一場合,亦有就「送中」修例講話,新聞裡可能會出現以下講話:
... [/quote]


好多時?原来師兄做過统計

股神I号 2019-5-6 12:02 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-5 11:55 PM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498854931&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



好多時?原来師兄做過统計 [/quote]

呢排特首講親嘢,睇英語新聞,幾乎每次都會講「Carrie Lam says that ...」同時又講「The CE said that ...」。
咁都唔算「好多時」?
仲要去統計?
你不妨多啲睇吓香港 ViuTV 新聞英語!
可能你會話你唔睇 ViuTV,你睇 CNN 或 BBC 或 中央台!

沈小C 2019-5-6 12:04 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]股神I号[/i] 於 2019-5-6 12:02 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498855268&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]


呢排特首講親嘢,睇英語新聞,幾乎每次都會講「Carrie Lam says that ...」同時又講「The CE said that ...」。
咁都唔算「好多時」?
仲要去統計?
你不妨多啲睇吓香港 ViuTV 新聞英語!
可能你會話你唔睇 ViuTV,你睇 CNN 或 BBC 或 中央台! ... [/quote]
原來以VIU TV新聞為準,明白

公園花花馬桶 2019-5-6 12:09 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]沈小C[/i] 於 2019-5-6 12:04 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498855370&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

原來以VIU TV新聞為準,明白 [/quote]


我唔明喎

股神I号 2019-5-6 12:09 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]沈小C[/i] 於 2019-5-6 12:04 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498855370&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]

原來以VIU TV新聞為準,明白 [/quote]

你明白就好!:loveliness:
記住做個好學生,用功讀好中文、英文!
唔好再講「grey plastic shoes」:smile_44:

沈小C 2019-5-6 12:21 AM

[quote]原帖由 [i]公園花花馬桶[/i] 於 2019-5-6 12:09 AM 發表 [url=https://www.discuss.com.hk/redirect.php?goto=findpost&pid=498855572&ptid=28159987][img]https://www.discuss.com.hk/images/common/back.gif[/img][/url]



我唔明喎 [/quote]
用「says」,(3)用「said」 ==> 兩種時態都見到用嚟講某人的講話。……………你明佢錯乜未?
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查看完整版本: 過去觀察到的永久事實應該用present tense or past tense?